Chinese AESA development

I read the same reports you do and I can tell a vast amount of them are not really accurate. I mean we already have a fighter bomber from SAC, it's J-11BS. If we actually see J-16 this year, then I'm wrong, but it looks like the only ongoing program that's got national funding is CAC. I doubt SAC has enough money to work on J-20 and also fully fund its own independent stealth program. There is no evidence of JH-7B's first flight. Where is the picture?

tphuang said:

I read the same reports you do and I can tell a vast amount of them are not really accurate. I mean we already have a fighter bomber from SAC, it's J-11BS. If we actually see J-16 this year, then I'm wrong, but it looks like the only ongoing program that's got national funding is CAC. I doubt SAC has enough money to work on J-20 and also fully fund its own independent stealth program. There is no evidence of JH-7B's first flight. Where is the picture?

Click to expand...

From some credible source. SAC is very powerful due to connection. They can come up with their funding and back by many generals. But they recently loses some influence due to too conservative design(Probably Hu don't like it). Still they are no doubt a powerful force in China aviation sector.

SinoSoldier said:

There have been many aircraft in PLAAF that have operational AESA radars.

Here is the list:
- J-10B: clearly indicates Chinese AESA radar, possibly the Type 1475
- J-11B: there are plans to incorporate AESA into all J-11B models
- J-15*: analysts pointed out that the nose of the J-15 is intended to use AESA radar
- J-16*: plans to use AESA. It is basically a "Silent Flanker"
- J-20*: plans to use Type 1475 radar
- JH-7B*: plans to use AESA radar. It is a stealth version of JH-7A
- KJ-2000: has Chinese L-band AESA radar
- Y-8 AWACS / electronic aircraft: probably use L-band AESA radar

Note: the aircraft that has a (*) have not entered service yet

Click to expand...

Basically the only 2 (or 3) aircraft types that uses AESA radar are the J-10B, KJ-2000 and probably Y-8 AWACS. The others like the J-11B are only planned to have AESA but not already having it. And as we know, these plans might be cancelled or shelved for many reasons, such as political reasons, budgetary constraint, etc.

As for J-15, it was basically a navalised J-11B, so if plans are shelved to have AESA radars then J-15 might also have their AESA being shelved too. J-16 and JH-7B are aircraft that have not even shown themselves yet, not even a prototype or official (near official) claims of their real existence. So we can discounted these two type of aircraft until further details are being shown.

I would think J-20 might be getting the AESA radars or whatever was the most advance in China's inventory though.

rhino123 said:

Basically the only 2 (or 3) aircraft types that uses AESA radar are the J-10B, KJ-2000 and probably Y-8 AWACS. The others like the J-11B are only planned to have AESA but not already having it. And as we know, these plans might be cancelled or shelved for many reasons, such as political reasons, budgetary constraint, etc.

As for J-15, it was basically a navalised J-11B, so if plans are shelved to have AESA radars then J-15 might also have their AESA being shelved too. J-16 and JH-7B are aircraft that have not even shown themselves yet, not even a prototype or official (near official) claims of their real existence. So we can discounted these two type of aircraft until further details are being shown.

I would think J-20 might be getting the AESA radars or whatever was the most advance in China's inventory though.

Click to expand...

J-11B and J-15 are planned, yes, but plans are still plans. I doubt that it'll be long from now.

J-16 and JH-7B both have concept photos released many years ago. Reliable sources state that the J-16 will fly in 2011 while JH-7B flew a year back. Both are stealth aircraft, and reports say AESA will be used. In fact, quite detailed information about the two aircraft were present in reports.

We don't need "official's confirmation". These officials have not claimed the existence of the J-10B yet. Transparency in PLA isn't exactly "crystal clear".

tphuang said:

I read the same reports you do and I can tell a vast amount of them are not really accurate. I mean we already have a fighter bomber from SAC, it's J-11BS. If we actually see J-16 this year, then I'm wrong, but it looks like the only ongoing program that's got national funding is CAC. I doubt SAC has enough money to work on J-20 and also fully fund its own independent stealth program. There is no evidence of JH-7B's first flight. Where is the picture?

Click to expand...

J-11BS is not a 5th-gen fighter. The SAC fighter-bomber I'm talking about is a self-financed fighter-bomber. It's their own response to the J-20. SAC's role in J-20 is only to provide avionics. Once that's done, it can also be applied to SAC's own projects. The J-16 is a quasi-5th-gen fighter, a stealth version of J-11B. First flight of both jets are in 2011.

The JH-7B was first reported many years back. There are actually 2 photos of part of the design that's actually widely available. There are also multiple reports on it, saying that it's the first Chinese digitally-designed fighter. Huitong reports it, too. First flight has been document in hundreds of reports.

Pictures? Remember, J-10A's pictures were released 8 years after its maiden flight.

SinoSoldier said:

J-11B and J-15 are planned, yes, but plans are still plans. I doubt that it'll be long from now.

J-16 and JH-7B both have concept photos released many years ago. Reliable sources state that the J-16 will fly in 2011 while JH-7B flew a year back. Both are stealth aircraft, and reports say AESA will be used. In fact, quite detailed information about the two aircraft were present in reports.

We don't need "official's confirmation". These officials have not claimed the existence of the J-10B yet. Transparency in PLA isn't exactly "crystal clear".

Click to expand...

J-16 and JH-7B dont' have the same consistency the J-20 did -- maybe in the coming months we'll get some more information and maybe even pictures, but those two projects in particular are not considered as real as the J-XX was before we started hearing ramped up information last year.

SinoSoldier said:

J-11BS is not a 5th-gen fighter. The SAC fighter-bomber I'm talking about is a self-financed fighter-bomber. It's their own response to the J-20. SAC's role in J-20 is only to provide avionics. Once that's done, it can also be applied to SAC's own projects. The J-16 is a quasi-5th-gen fighter, a stealth version of J-11B. First flight of both jets are in 2011.

Click to expand...

For the sake of being credible it's best to not place so much faith in these rumored programs -- sure they might be real, but we haven't heard enough about them to accept them as "credibly rumored" as opposed to just "rumored"

The JH-7B was first reported many years back. There are actually 2 photos of part of the design that's actually widely available. There are also multiple reports on it, saying that it's the first Chinese digitally-designed fighter. Huitong reports it, too. First flight has been document in hundreds of reports.

Click to expand...

Post a link to one of the hundreds of reports? Be warned most of those reports are probably just fanboys who believe China has a nuclear powered bomber and that J-20 is really a space fighter.

Pictures? Remember, J-10A's pictures were released 8 years after its maiden flight.

Click to expand...

Was it? I think it was declassified officially by the media 8 years after the maiden flight, but pictures were floating around the net for a while before that.

Regardless JH-7B and J-16 aren't considered real as of yet and it'll be pointless to use them as back up in any argument. J-11B and J-15 will probably get AESA, but like tphuang said we should wait to see when they're actually equipped with it. J-11B/J-15 AESA can be listed as "probable", while J-10B, KJ-200 and KJ-2000 can be listed as "near confirmed".

J-18 may already scrapped,likely for financial reason, with so many fighter aircraft underdevelop,it all come down fighting for financial pie.
You got Xian JH-7B,chengdi J-20,shenyang J-15 (and other J-11 variant),not to mention ,Y-20 cargo jet,Z-10 and Z-15 and joint russo sino helo project. and last J-16 project.

Lion said:

From some credible source. SAC is very powerful due to connection. They can come up with their funding and back by many generals. But they recently loses some influence due to too conservative design(Probably Hu don't like it). Still they are no doubt a powerful force in China aviation sector.

Click to expand...

I get the feeling SAC's "connections" is pretty much what keeps it alive and allows it do R&D at all. It's not like the state is throwing vast amounts of money into a gigantic sink-hole just because they know the guy in charge. They cut them some slack, sure, but I don't think they'd channel 90% of the defence budget into it.

SinoSoldier said:

J-11B and J-15 are planned, yes, but plans are still plans. I doubt that it'll be long from now.

J-16 and JH-7B both have concept photos released many years ago. Reliable sources state that the J-16 will fly in 2011 while JH-7B flew a year back. Both are stealth aircraft, and reports say AESA will be used. In fact, quite detailed information about the two aircraft were present in reports.

We don't need "official's confirmation". These officials have not claimed the existence of the J-10B yet. Transparency in PLA isn't exactly "crystal clear".

Click to expand...

So, what you're saying is that China has had stealth planes flying around for over a year? And that SAC has pretty much been doing like two-three stealth programs simultaneously, while Chengdu barely could do one?

I wish to adopt blitzo's sceptical view here. If we can only somewhat confirm AESA on J-10B (from rumors+features of airframe and the technological level), a fighter we have lots of pictures of and that we KNOW is flying around there, how is it even useful to be 100% sure of AESA on projects that themselves are only rumors so far? Plans are plans, but you can plan anything. Circumstances change. I don't deny these planes will fly soon and that they have AESA. But I just think it's waaaaay premature to take these facts as given as of now. I'm completely willing to throw this stance away as soon as we have credible pics, reports and analysis available.

Maggern said:

So, what you're saying is that China has had stealth planes flying around for over a year? And that SAC has pretty much been doing like two-three stealth programs simultaneously, while Chengdu barely could do one?

Click to expand...

I don't think that SAC has two stealth projects as I think that the stealth JH-7B is a Xian Aircraft Industrial Corporation project since they are the ones that make the JH-7.

Bltizo said:

J-16 and JH-7B dont' have the same consistency the J-20 did -- maybe in the coming months we'll get some more information and maybe even pictures, but those two projects in particular are not considered as real as the J-XX was before we started hearing ramped up information last year.

Click to expand...

The J-16 and JH-7B are both widely reported in Chinese media. There are even photos of a small mockup of the JH-7B (as well as the computer screen design) and also SAC-leaked designs of the J-16. If there are plans (it is widely reported that there is), then it's real. There's no gray area in between.

Bltizo said:

For the sake of being credible it's best to not place so much faith in these rumored programs -- sure they might be real, but we haven't heard enough about them to accept them as "credibly rumored" as opposed to just "rumored"

Click to expand...

For your information, "credibility" doesn't exist in the PLA. The J-10B still "doesn't exist" according to the PLAAF. The guy who told about the SAC stealth fighter-bomber is the same guy who told the description of the J-20 one year ago, and the description matches exactly what the J-20 is today. He apparently has insider connections.

How bout this, the projects I mentioned are mentioned by Huitong. Credible enough?

Bltizo said:

Post a link to one of the hundreds of reports? Be warned most of those reports are probably just fanboys who believe China has a nuclear powered bomber and that J-20 is really a space fighter.

Click to expand...

Huitong reprots it, too

Bltizo said:

Was it? I think it was declassified officially by the media 8 years after the maiden flight, but pictures were floating around the net for a while before that.

Regardless JH-7B and J-16 aren't considered real as of yet and it'll be pointless to use them as back up in any argument. J-11B and J-15 will probably get AESA, but like tphuang said we should wait to see when they're actually equipped with it. J-11B/J-15 AESA can be listed as "probable", while J-10B, KJ-200 and KJ-2000 can be listed as "near confirmed".

Click to expand...

Yeah, J-10A pictures were almost never known until many years after the first flight. Even after the first photos were released, they were regarded as photoshops

JH-7B, J-16, and the SAC fighter-bomber are all widely reported. But remember, the PLAAF doesn't "confirm" something until years after its first completion. Sure, nothing can be "confirmed" if that's what you're looking for. Not even the J-10B.

The real speculation lies in the actual performance of the Type 1475 KLJ-5 AESA radar.