Chinese 96-A

Black Shark said:

It wasn't cheating and the rules already said, countries are only allowed to use OWN tanks and crews, so if some incapable countries can not bring their own tanks you somehow believe they will be granted some special rules breaking the very first rule of the Tank biathlon and giving them better tanks than those countries posses in own inventory, also not trained to specific new FCS.

The rules are clear, countries do only participate with own crew and own tanks, giving them something better would be violation and result in direct disquilification from the Tank biathlon.



The point system was transparent, from each country officials were on the side as observers of jury.

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The question still remains: why didn't the Russians choose to use the same type of tanks that they gave to others? Yes, the poor nations had no choice, but the Russians did. They could have chosen to use the same tanks that was given to the teams that didn't bring their own tanks. Or why not giving the other teams the more advanced tanks that the Russian used in the competition. The Russian sure had a couple more tanks available.

And yes, I know that the rules allowed teams to bring their own tanks. But if I am confident of my own abilities and my own training, I would give everyone the exact same tank because I will win no matter what... So technically it's not cheating, but it definitely shows that the Russians were not confident about their own abilities and tried their best to maximize their chance of winning. This is nothing new. professional sports teams do it all the time. Nothing wrong with that. However, it definitely shows lack of confidence on the Russians.

I do not want to sound like a troll but how about this – the Russians should have taken out of storage an old T 72 basic variant and called up a crew composed of reservists who trained on that model back in the USSR. After all they should show confidence. Taking an advanced version of the T 72 is showing lack of confidence and kind of ‘cheating’.

And why did the Chinese bring a Type 96 A? They should have purchased an old T 72 in basic configuration – plenty available – and showed off with that. Bringing a Type 96 A with a good FCS, I mean that is not really showing the gunners skills but kind of ‘cheating’ against the competitors who have older T 72 with less advanced FCS.

With that type of reasoning everybody should have been using T 34 were basic optics where the man behind them really counts.

But than it would not be tank biathlon but a historic re-enactment .

vesicles said:

The question still remains: why didn't the Russians choose to use the same type of tanks that they gave to others? Yes, the poor nations had no choice, but the Russians did. They could have chosen to use the same tanks that was given to the teams that didn't bring their own tanks. Or why not giving the other teams the more advanced tanks that the Russian used in the competition. The Russian sure had a couple more tanks available.

And yes, I know that the rules allowed teams to bring their own tanks. But if I am confident of my own abilities and my own training, I would give everyone the exact same tank because I will win no matter what... So technically it's not cheating, but it definitely shows that the Russians were not confident about their own abilities and tried their best to maximize their chance of winning. This is nothing new. professional sports teams do it all the time. Nothing wrong with that. However, it definitely shows lack of confidence on the Russians.

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So Russia should use also a T-72B and make the entire tank biathlon even more monoton just because some poor nations that are even incapable of handling anything better than the old versions they used for decades, so just people on forum have nothing to discuss? So what if western countries would come with Leopard 2, Leclerc, Chally2 and other tanks, should russia give them all T-72B so they have all the same chances? Why holding a tank biathlon in first place with advertizement that every country brings own tanks, why not making it even more fair and only one country will give crew to all the same tanks, so no one can claim they have different trainings because poor countries can not put their soldiers to same training and we just put different countries flags on them?
It is not russias fault when poor countries are completley incapable, Russia was already playing fair by giving china superior APFSDS rounds which are not like stated by Lezt, less acurate, they are more accurate because this are different rounds than the average table of rounds that is stated by Fofanov, because he states the average among all rounds not specific rounds. Russia just could give no crap and use T-90A1 tanks and just smoke them all even easier but, no because of some poor countries that are incapable to even pay transport costs are crippling other countries down.

If small countries can not swim with the big fishes they should stay out the water, this is tank biathlon is to bring countries together and not a b*tch fest to complain about everything, build better tanks or don't participate, plain and simple.

Black Shark said:

So Russia should use also a T-72B and make the entire tank biathlon even more monoton just because some poor nations that are even incapable of handling anything better than the old versions they used for decades, so just people on forum have nothing to discuss?

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This is a competition. It is supposed to be monotone. that is called playing on an even field. The most basic requirement for a competition.

Black Shark said:

If small countries can not swim with the big fishes they should stay out the water, this is tank biathlon is to bring countries together and not a b*tch fest to complain about everything, build better tanks or don't participate, plain and simple.

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Last time I heard, the competition was about crew training, not the quality of the tanks. I thought you were trying to argue that a while back??? So why all of the sudden do you want them to bring better tanks? All the countries were invited to participate. None of them begged to swim in any pond with any fish.

BTW, I don't think your attitude that smaller fish should not swim with the big fishes fits the spirit of the competition.

To have a ‘level field’ ALL countries should use the same tank model just with basic optics – no electronics or laser range finders – and ALL crewmen should be taken from the street and trained for exactly the same amount of time by the same impartial instructors using the same training aids.

But I do agree that ‘do not swim with the big fish’ is not exactly in the spirit of sportsmanship. But a ‘small fish’ like Armenia can still make it in a pond even with much larger spices. After all piranhas are small fish too.

Like it seams you haven't been following the tank biathlon and what the entire purpose is and how the course is solved.
It is soly based on crew skills, there are on the course several mines, anti tank ditches, water crossing, shooting and personal fitness parcour. Having for everyone the same tank will not make it even or uneven, since for every single mistake you get 60 seconds penalty or 500m extra loop penalty, having 200hp more or having better FCS is less relevant than the crews performance through the entire tank biathlon, the Armenians and Kazakhstan have proof it, they were among the bests, despite being in disadvantage they were properly trained and have not made to much mistakes.

Those conditions are met as a competition that is challanging crews skills and some differences like better ammunition or FCS make only one part better out of several criterias, meaning they have low weight, even more HP or higher speed has not more weight in the tank biathlon then the crew taining, because you have to drive and avoid tank mines (visually simulated) you are not allowed to stop to correct your position before driving over anti-tank ditch or crossing "river" or obstacles etc pp, that all is about crews performance not really the tanks performance. Switching to same tank makes the entire tank biathlon monotone and boring and since all those criterias and conditions of the tank biathlon are fair and not about technicals and parameters that is why countries are emphesized to come with their own tanks, to give audiency a show and bring countries in terms of relationship together.

Nothing is unfair, only bad losers are blaiming everything on everyone, avoid making mistakes and recieving penalties and you will win it with even old 2nd generation tanks, Armenia proved it.

Disclaimer: I dont care who won and who lost. Not my problem. I am simply puzzled. It you watch / follow any sport, they go out their ways to make sure everyone is playing on an even field. That's why you have each side switching fields in any outdoor sport so that no one team has to face the sun or playing against the wind throughout the game. So my simply question is: why wouldn't the Russians do that, playing on an even field? Why?

Again, what they did is perfectly fine. Like I staid before, any seasoned athlete would do that Ina competition. I have no problem with that. it simply suggests that they had little confidence of winning and simply tried their best to "play the game". That is all. That is my explanation for why they didn't field the same tanks as the ones that they gave to others. If you have a different explanation, then answer my question.

Lets be Blunt. The Russians Did not hold this little game just to have fun. They did it to SELL TANKS! the reason there team used T72B3 was not just to play but also to advertize. they gave the second place winner a T90S, The Tanks loaned to the competition were the base models used by both nations, The Russian Team then rolled in with a Upgraded version and basically said "Hay check out this version see the new features... You two can have all this for the low low price..."

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Lets be Blunt. The Russians Did not hold this little game just to have fun. They did it to SELL TANKS! the reason there team used T72B3 was not just to play but also to advertize. they gave the second place winner a T90S, The Tanks loaned to the competition were the base models used by both nations, The Russian Team then rolled in with a Upgraded version and basically said "Hay check out this version see the new features... You two can have all this for the low low price..."

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That is true. Their tactic of selling tank is like, here is what you current have in your country (the base model), for an additional cost, your tank would be even better. Theses comparisons would lead to potential buyer to do a cost and benefit analysis on the new model and you can build it without re-tooling if you already produce t-72 under contract

Black Shark said:

fair by giving china superior APFSDS rounds which are not like stated by Lezt, less acurate, they are more accurate because this are different rounds than the average table of rounds that is stated by Fofanov, because he states the average among all rounds not specific rounds.

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Proof? - you can also argue that the Russian hand picked match grade specific rounds; but there is no proof of that. Just show us proof of what you say.