China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

Philister

Philister

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Deino said:
Exactly my point! What was missed during the original design that such a major redesign is necessary? :oops:
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Experience, fund ,basic research and even demand ,pretty much everything, the purpose of AG-600 project isn’t to develop a good vehicle but to restore the long-gone capability of developing such thing, aside from what we imported from Soviet Union, the only water plane we have ever developed is 水轰-5，and that is a half-ass project which doesn’t meet any need and less than 10 of them eventually went into service
 
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stannislas

Junior Member
Registered Member
Philister said:
Fun fact, the number of military water plane ever produced by PRC is less than 15 , and engineering crew of the AG-600 program, most of them are fresh graduated students, my expectation is low, “just be better than the national football team”
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ohhh, that's a very brutal insulting, you should appologies to those engineers. They may be young, but definately there are many seniors to guild them, and make the plane achieve the design requirements
 
Philister

Philister

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stannislas said:
ohhh, that's a very brutal insulting, you should appologies to those engineers. They may be young, but definately there are many seniors to guild them, and make the plane achieve the design requirements
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They are young and inexperienced ,and that’s a fact
 
tphuang

tphuang

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This is something I saw recently and just could not believe
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The Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation, General of the Army Sergei Shoigu, checked the work of the Avistar-SP aviation enterprise in Ulyanovsk, where he set the task of producing up to 10 IL-76MD-90A military transport aircraft per year.

"In 2020, we received three aircraft, and in 2021, we have plans for five vehicles. It is necessary to reach the level of 10 aircraft per year in the future — " the head of the military department instructed at a meeting on the results of work at the enterprise. — The task is not easy. Today we will hear how it will be solved."
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It's pretty amazing that we are at a point where China is vastly outproducing Russia in large military transports. (at least seems that way based on the XAC photos). Speaks for the improving production capabilities at Xi'an.
 
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gelgoog

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Russia dragged its feet on building new facilities for way too long. After the collapse of the Soviet Union the Il-76 production facility ended up in Uzbekistan. Antonov ended up in Ukraine. Russia fiddled way too long with ideas of making collaborations to build transportation aircraft.

Only in the past decade did they finally decide to build their own facilities for Il-76 production as a deal with Uzbekistan failed. Most of the production engineers at the factory had already been long gone by that point. Il-76-MD-90A production is still ramping up at the new plant. The Il-112 is delayed like heck in part because Russia was supposed to buy the An-140T from Ukraine. The An-140T purchase only got cancelled in 2014 for rather obvious reasons. So since then they rushed the Il-112 design and it has had major issues. First with the airframe design and now with the engine. The An-70 went nowhere since they never managed to solve the issues with the engines and the aircraft. Any cooperation on the An-124 also went nowhere and Russia ended up making their own refurbishment facilities.

I think Russia needs to merge the civilian airliner and military transport design teams or move people around to have enough people to work on the transportation aircraft. They will need to make new facilities for aircraft other than the Il-76. The only saving grace really is the persistent investment on the PS-90 and now the PD-14 series of engines.

China did well to work on their own Y-20 design. I think it is a shame they did not work on smaller modern transports as well though. I don't know if they will be able to easily get external design help from Ukraine anymore. China needs a medium transport aircraft to replace the Y-8. In my opinion the Y-9 was a waste of time. They should have made a twin turbofan aircraft similar to the Il-276.
 
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weig2000

Captain
gelgoog said:
Russia dragged its feet on building new facilities for way too long. After the collapse of the Soviet Union the Il-76 production facility ended up in Uzbekistan. Antonov ended up in Ukraine. Russia fiddled way too long with ideas of making collaborations to build transportation aircraft.

Only in the past decade did they finally decide to build their own facilities for Il-76 production as a deal with Uzbekistan failed. Most of the production engineers at the factory had already been long gone by that point. Il-76-MD-90A production is still ramping up at the new plant. The Il-112 is delayed like heck in part because Russia was supposed to buy the An-140T from Ukraine. The An-140T purchase only got cancelled in 2014 for rather obvious reasons. So since then they rushed the Il-112 design and it has had major issues. First with the airframe design and now with the engine. The An-70 went nowhere since they never managed to solve the issues with the engines and the aircraft. Any cooperation on the An-124 also went nowhere and Russia ended up making their own refurbishment facilities.

I think Russia needs to merge the civilian airliner and military transport design teams or move people around to have enough people to work on the transportation aircraft. They will need to make new facilities for aircraft other than the Il-76. The only saving grace really is the persistent investment on the PS-90 and now the PD-14 series of engines.

China did well to work on their own Y-20 design. I think it is a shame they did not work on smaller modern transports as well though. I don't know if they will be able to easily get external design help from Ukraine anymore. China needs a medium transport aircraft to replace the Y-8. In my opinion the Y-9 was a waste of time. They should have made a twin turbofan aircraft similar to the Il-276.
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Y-9 is indeed outdated, and is more of a stop-gap solution. Y-30 has been forever on displays. Lack of a suitable engine and lower priority are likely the reasons why. WS-20 might just be the answer for a twin turbofan medium transporter.
 
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