China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

A Chinese plane might be able to fight in five years, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be ready for mass production. Take into account aerodynamic changes needed for AEW variants, the timeframe may be extended by another year. So get this Il-76 deal done and win some oil concessions.
 

tphuang

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Re: China's transport plane capacities

A Chinese plane might be able to fight in five years, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be ready for mass production. Take into account aerodynamic changes needed for AEW variants, the timeframe may be extended by another year. So get this Il-76 deal done and win some oil concessions.
fly in less than 4 years, if it looks a lot like IL-76, then there is not much extra changes needed. Besides, by then you can just convert all the existing IL-76. You are not getting any oil concessions. It's totally separate issue from arms trade.
 

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

fly in less than 4 years, if it looks a lot like IL-76, then there is not much extra changes needed. Besides, by then you can just convert all the existing IL-76. You are not getting any oil concessions. It's totally separate issue from arms trade.

Whether the Chinese will ultimately win oil concessions is one issue, but to say that China can not obtain any leverage from the arms trade is incorrect. In fact, recent reports suggest that China has obtained Russian acquiscence on the J-11B issue by pledging its opposition to the American missile defence. Any national matters, relating to trade, energy, security, culture can be used as leverage in any kind of interstate negotiations.

And the Chinese plane would have to be flying in a lot less than 4 years for it to be certified for full production in 5. Testing, maintenance, reliability and training are all things that you can't ignore.

Lastly, IL-76 is needed for much more than just AWACS platforms. The country is in a dire need for strategic airlift capabilities, and the result of not having enough for your military is that you would have to rely on civilian chartered planes to do the job, which is certainly not going to cut it in wartime.
 

tphuang

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Re: China's transport plane capacities

Whether the Chinese will ultimately win oil concessions is one issue, but to say that China can not obtain any leverage from the arms trade is incorrect. In fact, recent reports suggest that China has obtained Russian acquiscence on the J-11B issue by pledging its opposition to the American missile defence. Any national matters, relating to trade, energy, security, culture can be used as leverage in any kind of interstate negotiations.
don't pretend to know what happened behind the scenes with J-11B.
And the Chinese plane would have to be flying in a lot less than 4 years for it to be certified for full production in 5. Testing, maintenance, reliability and training are all things that you can't ignore.
as mentioned before, the short term project they work on is very similar to IL-76. And if the story about Uzbekistan is true, they are far more along getting some kind of a production line set up than people think. Besides, does anyone really think the new Russian plant can produce IL-76 that quickly?
Lastly, IL-76 is needed for much more than just AWACS platforms. The country is in a dire need for strategic airlift capabilities, and the result of not having enough for your military is that you would have to rely on civilian chartered planes to do the job, which is certainly not going to cut it in wartime.
you don't need to lecture me on where IL-76 is needed for. Point is, even if the new transport is not ready for other missions, you can use convert existing IL-76 and then get the new transport to replace the IL-76s.
 

Eurofighter

New Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

just reading this, you wonder what the chances are for China to buy IL-76 if they anticipate the domestic copy will be ready in 5 years and this new factory is clearly not ready for production yet. If it takes 3 years to get the contract signed and equipments purchased. And then the first IL-76 come off the production line will already be around 2011-2012, would this deal be worth it?

honestly I didn't know they have a program going on to copy the Il-76. All I know is that they are trying to produce a c-17 alike before 2020.

if you are kind enough to provide it, I would be happy to get more informed on this Il-76 copy. :)
 

tphuang

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Re: China's transport plane capacities

honestly I didn't know they have a program going on to copy the Il-76. All I know is that they are trying to produce a c-17 alike before 2020.

if you are kind enough to provide it, I would be happy to get more informed on this Il-76 copy. :)
well, a couple of things, if you read previously in this thread, there was a discussion on that. Plus, with the XAC making that announcement about 2012, most people suspect that it has to look a lot like IL-76, otherwise there is no way it can come out that fast.
 

PrOeLiTeZ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

well, a couple of things, if you read previously in this thread, there was a discussion on that. Plus, with the XAC making that announcement about 2012, most people suspect that it has to look a lot like IL-76, otherwise there is no way it can come out that fast.
that is unless a program started in the early 90's, that was kept under secrecy...but most likely it would be a tweaked IL-76 design...
 

sandyj

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

China, Russia And Cheap Transports

June 16, 2008:

Two years ago, China placed an order for 38 Il-76 transport planes and Il-78s (tanker versions of the Il-76). It was believed that China was paying close to $40 million per aircraft, but it turned out that the actual price was half that. This has led to yet another squabble between China and Russia, as the seller tried to get a higher price after the deal was agreed to.

Inspired by the recently retired American C-141, the Il-76 is actually manufactured in Uzbekistan. That's because one of the Russian aircraft plants moved east during the German invasion of 1941, ended up in Central Asia, a part of the Soviet Union that became independent Uzbekistan in 1991. The Chkalov Tashkent Aircraft Production Company was the only one still manufacturing the Il-76. Over 900 Il-76s were manufactured there over the last thirty years, with nearly a hundred exported, so far, mainly to Cuba, Iraq, China, India, Libya and Syria.

However, until this Chinese order came along, Chkalov was surviving by manufacturing wings and other components for the An-124, An-70 and An-225 transports. In addition, it made replacement parts for the Il-76 and Il-114 aircraft. The Chinese order, however, proved more than the Chkalov firm could handle, even though it had fifteen partly built Il-76s on the production line. So at least 60 percent of the Il-76 production was transferred to a Russian firm (Ilyushin).

This meant that the order could not be completed until 2013, rather than 2012. This move indicated that the Russians believe the Il-76 has a future beyond this Chinese order. Now the Il-76 will have two production lines, as well as some protection against political problems in Uzbekistan (which needs the 18,000 jobs the Chkalov operation creates, but you never know.)

The Russians, however, were not as willing as the Uzbekis to lose money on the Il-76s they will be producing, and are demanding that the Chinese pay a price that will allow for a profit (like about twice what the Chinese are currently contracted to pay). Negotiations have reached the point where the Chinese are willing to pay more, but want guarantees that they will not get screwed on quality and warranty service. There is also talk of changing the contract to provide the new Il-476. This is basically an Il-76 with more modern engines, state-of-the art electronics and numerous other improvements. This version can carry up to 60 tons and is about 15 percent more fuel efficient. Russia wants to get some customers for the IL-476, so a deal may be done with the Chinese.
 

noone536

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

if the chinese gets the Il-476 it will sure bring up their airlift capabilyty and probably could respond to distar even fater thatn the sichiun not that it was slow
 
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