China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

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by78 said:

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told ya she would "rock", very kool photo's and good airwork, this does sell airplanes!

ladioussupp said:

Y-19(?) modell with four 5000kW turbo propellers engines

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Another view of this turboprop lifter. The characters on the fuselage say "New Intermediate Transport", and if the engines are rated at 5000KW each, then this plane ought to slot in nicely between the Y-20 and the Y-9.

An airlifter with four 5000kw engines only has about 30% more power than Y-9, I'm not sure if that'll directly translate to meaning the aircraft is only 30% larger with 30% bigger payload.
But if it does, I think this plane is more of a Y-9 replacement than a complement. I'd expect a payload of 30+ tons to act as a complement between Y-9 and Y-20 instead.

Best guess then would be a maybe a 31-33 ton lifter? The A400M is powered by 8,250 kW engines AN70 is cranked by 10,350 kW engines
An70 can pack in about a 52 ton payload, just enough that it might be able to pack in a light MBT.
A400M can pack in about 41 tons.
C130J uses 3,458 kW engines but maxes out at 21 tons
So using just the turboprops power out put as a guess it should be logical then that it would fit between the Super Hercules and the Atlas
Considering the given weight of a PLA IFV is about 23 tons? that would give plenty of weight for a IFV and squad.

ladioussupp said:

Y-19(?) modell with four 5000kW turbo propellers engines

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its official designation is right on its tail.
Y-30

Bltizo said:

An airlifter with four 5000kw engines only has about 30% more power than Y-9, I'm not sure if that'll directly translate to meaning the aircraft is only 30% larger with 30% bigger payload.
But if it does, I think this plane is more of a Y-9 replacement than a complement. I'd expect a payload of 30+ tons to act as a complement between Y-9 and Y-20 instead.

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Blitz I am not sure Replace so much as supplant.
Here is what I mean, Way back yonder in the 1950's when Elvis was young and singing, Cars were Marilyn Monroe on the front and Rocket ships on the Rear with sizes equal to some zip codes, C130 and An12 ( the mother of Y8 and Grandmother of Y9) were at that time capable of carrying armored fighting vehicles of the time. The American M113 could be air dropped from a C130, AN12 could carry and drop BMD-1 ( although introduced in 1969)
As time as gone by the demands of combat have pushed most of the Armored vehicles of the world out of the lifting envelope of these families. most modern IFV's weigh in at the very edge of these vehicles weight requirements if not beyond it. For example the BMP-1 of 1969 was considered to heavy for the Soviet VDV Airborne it weighed in at only 14.6 tons so they created the BMD-1 at 9.1 tons fully loaded. The US M113 weighed in at 13.4 tons. now look at there modern equals. The BMP-3 is 20.6 tons the BMD4 is 15 tons the M113 is still in service but has a replacement program under way the most likely replacement is based on the Bradly fighting vehicle family which tips the scales at 30 tons.
C130 can never ever ever ever carry a Bradley fighting vehicle. even the latest J model cant do it.
in the same breath Y8 can't carry a modern PLA IFV either, Even the modernized Y9 can barely lift one but would not have much fuel.
So both the Chinese, the Russians and the US as well as europe and every one else then find them selves forced to make a choice they either sacrifice armor for mobility and introduce vehicles that are thin skinned yet can be carried by these older transports or Introduce massive fleets of heavy strategic transports. Thats not much of a choice is it?
There is a Third option though.
The Third option seems to be the model being used by both the US and PLA. You introduce first a interem medium to lightweight family of multifunction armored vehicles. the Stryker was originally billed in fact as a "Interim Armored Vehicle" we see something similar in the ZBL09.
further upgrade the legacy lifter C130J, Y9. and then introduce a heavier lifer at a later date. This model of a "New Intermediate Transport" has an American Equivalent program well actually two, in the In Essence the requirements though are the same a 30-40 ton tactical lifter to move modern IFV's where needed with Short field take off and landing ( if not Heavy Lift Vertical Takeoff and Landing) superior to C17 ( or Y20 in the PLA's case) to allow Rapid deployment of maneuver forces.
But If you do that what do you do with C130J or Y9? Well there Special mission variants remain as do the bulk of there stocks well the Older C130H and Y8's as well as lesser lifters in there respective mother services are phased out. basically Y9 would replace Y7 and everything but the most specialized and even then Y9 would be modified to take the job.

I agree with Blitzo that 4x 5000kW engines suggests max payload of under 30 tons and that as such the aircraft is more likely intended as a replacement for the Y-8/9 series rather than a complement to it -- although of course in reality the aircraft would serve alongside each other for decades.

If we couple this assumption of ~30 ton payload with the 60-ton payload of Y-20 (with production engines) then we can begin to see the lineup that is emerging here, and how it is offset from the offerings of other manufacturers, in much the same way that Boeing and Airbus offset their offerings from one another in the airliner business. The general effect, taking superior Chinese pricing into account, would be to either undercut competitors for equivalent capability, or offer superior capability for a given price.

Extrapolating, we can predict that China will also seek to field a lighter platform offering payload around 15 tons -- in between C-27J and C-130J/Y-9/KC-390/Il-214. It is plausible that this aircraft could be powered by two of the same 5000kW turboprops intended for this newly unveiled medium lifter.

I disagree, 15 ton lifer would only really fill a likely niche role. and in the case of C27J although intended for service was rapidly withdrawn, sold or used only for very limited SF and by the Coastguard. If a 30+ ton lifter does emerge it's likely that the still new Y9's would take the lighter lifter roles rendering a 15 ton lifter redundant.