China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft - esp. Y-20/YY-20

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
COMAC already got a long backlog of civilian orders for the C919 that will take them many years to fulfill.
They will absolutely make airframes available for the military, even if they are a quintillion civilian orders behind.

On top of that, they will probably be quite hesitated to supply airframes to the PLA even when indigenous alternatives are available for all foreign components due to the risk of arbitrary sanctions from the US.
There will be zero sanctions from the US if every last part is indigenized. This claim doesn't even make any sense to begin with.

IMHO fuel efficiency isn't really a top priority for large military aircrafts and the Y20 / Y20F-100 are better suited as the platform for PLA's specialized aircrafts as they are free from the above constrains and are also larger aircrafts powered by four engines that provide a higher degree of redundancy
Fuel efficiency is actually the PRIMARY driver for the military to use civilian airliner designs, especially for aircraft like MPAs and AEW&C. Do you know why both the E-2 and KJ-600 use turboprops instead of turbofans? There's your answer right there. And if the US military actually agreed with your reasoning it would never have used any civilian airliner designs to begin with, but in actual point of fact they nearly ALL use civilian airliner designs, including all the ones I mentioned, and nearly ALL of them are also only twin-engine designs, so clearly they also don't really care about engine redundancy either. And it's not like the US military doesn't have any choices in the matter; it has actually had plenty of military transport aircraft designs to choose from, but they have consistently chosen civilian airliner designs instead. That should have told you something right there, so I'm not sure why you would choose this hill to die on given the ample real world evidence against your claim.
 

ying1978

New Member
Do not underestimate the degree of shamelessness of the hegemon. Since Trump’s last presidency, the US has sanctioned numerous Chinese companies for merely “supporting the modernization of China’s military” or “being linked to the PLA”. Even when you are not using any American suppliers, being cut off from SWIFT and the America’s monetary system is not fun. Norinco is under such entity list and they have to find really innovative ways to circumvent SWIFT for settling international payments in their arms export deals. I’ve sure COMAC, being a company specifically separated from AVIC to handle civilian business, will not be keen to suffer similar fate.

On the point of Western specialized aircraft using civilian airliners as their flying platforms, first and foremost Boeing do not need to worry about sanctions. Secondly, the 737, 767 and DC-10 are mass produced mature platforms that are relatively cheap to acquire as they benefited from the economy of scale. Fuel efficiency is a nice bonus to have, but the main goal for such aircraft is actually range and endurance. For land based AEW&Cs and tankers, we can always use a larger aircraft with bigger fuel tanks to achieve the same endurance. In fact, the Y-20 is a much larger aircraft than the C919 with more range than even the proposed C919ER version. IMO the risk of sanction vastly out-weights the minor saving in fuel cost, which is exactly the reason why every post cold war non-Western AW&Cs and tankers are based on military transports when non-western civilian options like the Sukhoi superjet and MC-21 are available.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Do not underestimate the degree of shamelessness of the hegemon. Since Trump’s last presidency, the US has sanctioned numerous Chinese companies for merely “supporting the modernization of China’s military” or “being linked to the PLA”. Even when you are not using any American suppliers, being cut off from SWIFT and the America’s monetary system is not fun. Norinco is under such entity list and they have to find really innovative ways to circumvent SWIFT for settling international payments in their arms export deals. I’ve sure COMAC, being a company specifically separated from AVIC to handle civilian business, will not be keen to suffer similar fate.
Sorry, but your claim is as ridiculous as saying "oh, I don't really like the way you breathe: therefore, SANCTIONS". The US has no legal basis for such an action, not even in theory, sanctioning a country for using its own product how it wants to use its own product. I guess it's possible in theory the US will be ridiculous in this manner, but if China acts according to how ridiculous the US could even possibly be in theory, then it should just not ever do anything to begin with. The US moronically putting sanctions on a completely indigenous C919 that was subsequently modified for military use, is moronic. It just is. It's not really even worthy of being discussed.

On the point of Western specialized aircraft using civilian airliners as their flying platforms, first and foremost Boeing do not need to worry about sanctions. Secondly, the 737, 767 and DC-10 are mass produced mature platforms that are relatively cheap to acquire as they benefited from the economy of scale. Fuel efficiency is a nice bonus to have, but the main goal for such aircraft is actually range and endurance. For land based AEW&Cs and tankers, we can always use a larger aircraft with bigger fuel tanks to achieve the same endurance. In fact, the Y-20 is a much larger aircraft than the C919 with more range than even the proposed C919ER version. IMO the risk of sanction vastly out-weights the minor saving in fuel cost, which is exactly the reason why every post cold war non-Western AW&Cs and tankers are based on military transports when non-western civilian options like the Sukhoi superjet and MC-21 are available.
C919 mass produced will also benefit from economy of scale. And did you just say "Fuel efficiency is a nice bonus to have, but the main goal for such aircraft is actually range and endurance"??? LOL why are we still having this conversation I just don't even
 
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