China's strategy in Korean peninsula

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Great advertisement from PRC towards Koreans with 'you're nothing' message all over. US never did that and they say that 'West' doesn't understand 'East'... And if any US diplomat believed that PRC can do anything about North Korea... they're doomed if they take things so easily. In fact they can do as much as US. Nothing.


Yes just pull it out of your... I remember when South Korean singer Psy broke a record for how many views in one day for his follow-up music video on YouTube to Gangnam Style, I was watching an American TV show scoffing at it saying it was only a bunch of Koreans watching it over and over again. Hypocrite!
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
You have to admit it's hard to sympathize with any culture that can inflict Gangnam style on the world when you are actually watching Gangnam style on YouTube.

Oh, throwing around tu quoque doesn't make you less wrong or the hypocrite less right.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
So, basically what China's already doing with foreign online companies? Hide behind a political excuse to ban foreign firms while domestic ones like Weibo, Wechat, Bilibili, Taobao, and Baidu take over.

It will only be an excuse if those said foreign companies comply with the Chinese law, security concerns etc. but still got banned by China.

If Facebook is willing to take down Dalai Lama's page for example, then it becomes no real threat. Before doing that banning Facebook is a legitimate reason, not an excuse.

If THAAD is removed from SK, there will be no excuse to ban SK business in China. Before THAAD is removed, it is legitimate reason to "ban" SK business, not an excuse.

It is an "excuse" handed to China by SK.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
To be fair I think blocking foreign social media companies was, and remains as a very valid national security concern given the role of social media and big data in things ranging from propaganda, spying, artificial intelligence.

For the industries that taxiya mentioned, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to continue exposing domestic firms to controlled competition
Fully agree with the first paragraph, see my post 593.

Agree in general to the second paragraph. To make myself clear, competition from foreign companies is a good thing. By shutting out SK business, the exposure is not totally removed, there are US, Japanese, European companies. However, at some point, targeting certain top-tier or bottom-tier competitors (depending on circumstance) is a way to make room for own companies to move up. In a sense, it is similar to custom. There are three scenario:

  1. When domestic producers are too weak to stand the competition, use high import tax to help them to grow.
  2. When they become strong enough, expose them to foreign competition.
  3. Finally when they are even more stronger to challenge the champion, use specific (national security and whatever there is) tool to displace the champion.
The last scenario is what I was trying to explain.

Take Samsung mobile phone for instance. It is one of the top tier in China besides iPhone. Huawei is the realistic challenger to these two in global arena (I think it is already 2nd in China?). Now to make Huawei the number 1 in the world, there is going to be a victim, who is that going to be? It does not have to be Samsung but SK just handed over a reason for China to kill Samsung, same as for Kia and Hyundai being squeezed by Chinese domestic car producers.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
You have to admit it's hard to sympathize with any culture that can inflict Gangnam style on the world when you are actually watching Gangnam style on YouTube.

Oh, throwing around tu quoque doesn't make you less wrong or the hypocrite less right.

At least I can show examples when making a point. Better than how you guys just generalize when making accusations. This also answers your earlier post about how you said the Chinese people look down at South Koreans. Didn't you just do that with South Koreans and the popularity of Psy? Your tastes are superior to theirs? Hypocrisy much?
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Back to the topic of THAAD and the new president Moon.

I have a gut feeling that Moon's calling for National Assembly to decide THAAD's fate is probably just a shield to protect himself although he himself has been more or less rejecting THAAD. His party is the biggest in the National Assembly, but does not have absolute majority. For the National Assembly to kill THAAD, there must be some members from other parties to support his motion. If the bill (to kill THAAD) is voted down, he could blame ex-president for it. Neither China can blame him, nor can South Korean businessmen who suffered in China can blame him for what the ex-president and the National Assembly did.

I don't question his sincerity of taking different approaches to NK and China, but I think his hand is being tied. It is the collective consensus in SK that will decide.

If my gut feeling turns out to be right, I expect the SK/China relationship will keep frozen for some years, similar to the Japan/China relationship (to this day).

I must say that the American members here should thank Obama and Kim jung-un for crippling SK/China relationship. On this one, Kim is on the same boat with Americans.
 

delft

Brigadier
Back to the topic of THAAD and the new president Moon.

I have a gut feeling that Moon's calling for National Assembly to decide THAAD's fate is probably just a shield to protect himself although he himself has been more or less rejecting THAAD. His party is the biggest in the National Assembly, but does not have absolute majority. For the National Assembly to kill THAAD, there must be some members from other parties to support his motion. If the bill (to kill THAAD) is voted down, he could blame ex-president for it. Neither China can blame him, nor can South Korean businessmen who suffered in China can blame him for what the ex-president and the National Assembly did.

I don't question his sincerity of taking different approaches to NK and China, but I think his hand is being tied. It is the collective consensus in SK that will decide.

If my gut feeling turns out to be right, I expect the SK/China relationship will keep frozen for some years, similar to the Japan/China relationship (to this day).

I must say that the American members here should thank Obama and Kim jung-un for crippling SK/China relationship. On this one, Kim is on the same boat with Americans.
There are very good reasons for the owners of companies to convince their "friendly" members of parliament to vote against THAAD.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
At least I can show examples when making a point. Better than how you guys just generalize when making accusations. This also answers your earlier post about how you said the Chinese people look down at South Koreans. Didn't you just do that with South Koreans and the popularity of Psy? Your tastes are superior to theirs? Hypocrisy much?

Again, being a hypocrite doesn't make the hypocrite wrong, or you right. And it is always right to look down on the humorless self-righteous.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Do we need to take the internet/youtube stars so seriously to represent the whole populations of countries? One thing I dislike the "new media" is that it makes the crazy's much louder than they deserve. They do represent the feelings of the extreme end of the population, therefor to some extent the whole, but they are far from the truth of the mass.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am curious of the fate of the "
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", the full text in Chinese is here
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The expiration is due on August 30th, 2021. Article 7 (quote below) concerns the extension and cancellation.
第 七 条
本条约在未经双方就修改或者终止问题达成协议以前,将一直有效。
after the signature, the footnote says
条约有效期二十年,如一方要求修改或终止,须在期满前半年内向对方提出,否则《条约》自动延长二十年。
The Chinese language literally says, the treaty remains effective before agreement regarding the change or termination is reached.

The footnote says, if one party want to change or terminate, one must notice the other party within half year of the expiration date, otherwise the treaty automatically extend to another 20 years.

These two seems conflicting. What if one party notices the other the intension of terminating, the other party refuse to reach the said agreement in article 7? Or deliberately delay an agreement?

Of course, it will be terminated if one party is determined just like a divorce without reaching an agreement, but the legality of the treaty texts is also a serious concern.

Another more interesting question is what is China's position on this treaty today. Last time when the treaty was extended, the official position still called "the tie made of blood and sacrifice". Since last year, the official position is "normal national relationship", that essentially put Sino-NK relationship on the same rank as Sino-SK relationship on diplomatic terms.

I personally would prefer the extension IF NK listen to China's call to de-nuclearize and drop the tone of ultra-toughness, in that the continuation serves as a carrot. But, if Kim keeps playing deaf, threatening of termination can be a stick.
 
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