China's strategy in Korean peninsula

Blackstone · May 9, 2017

Richard Santos said:
I don't care about the promotional rationalization. America is in material fact a power exceptional in her relative invulnerability, endowment of natural advantages in large variety of mineral and geographic resource, and a demography that bucks the normal adverse evolutionary trend which besets all other developed countries and china. Those are the things that count, not promotional rationalization.

Agreed. When it comes right down to it, it's hard power that counts.

Blackstone · May 9, 2017

Richard Santos said:
It is easy for a side that's long been weak and resentful of being treated as weak to point out the arrogance of those who had been strong, as if it itself would have avoid such arrogance if it had itself been similarly strong. And it is usually the memory of this self deceit which allows the same weak side, when it does eventually become strong, to dismiss all signs of the development of own new found overweening arrogance imparted by its own higher station in the pecking order.

Oh you mean like the United States in the late 19th and early 20th Century? That overweening arrogant upstart, drunk on its own power and with delusion of godhood? Worked out fairly well for the arrogant bunch, didn't it?

Richard Santos · May 9, 2017

Blackstone said:
Oh you mean like the United States in the late 19th and early 20th Century? That overweening arrogant upstart, drunk on its own power and with delusion of godhood? Worked out fairly well for the arrogant bunch, didn't it? As below, so above.

In the 19th and early 20th century, the United States was already at near technological parity with the leading powers, and commanded a large advantage in economic power compared to the leading powers. It was already hardly an upstart any more.

Prior to 1880s, when the US first gained basic industrial parity with the world's ;earring power at the time, the United States was particularly blessed in that she was hardly picked on at all when she was relatively weak, due to the fact that she started at the same technological level as the stronger powers and never really suffered a huge technology gap that could give force multipliers to the stronger powers, the technologies of the day gave great advantage to those defending against an attacker at the end of a long sea lane, and the stronger powers all being preoccupied with each other and can't afford to come over to stomp in her,

Blackstone · May 9, 2017

Richard Santos said:
In the 19th and early 20th century, the United States was already at near technological parity with the leading powers, and commanded a large advantage in economic power compared to the leading powers. It was already hardly an upstart any more.

Prior to 1880s, when the US first gained basic industrial parity with the world's ;earring power at the time, the United States was particularly blessed in that she was hardly picked on at all when she was relatively weak, due to the fact that she started at the same technological level as the stronger powers and never really suffered a huge technology gap that could give force multipliers to the stronger powers, the technologies of the day gave great advantage to those defending against an attacker at the end of a long sea lane, and the stronger powers all being preoccupied with each other and can't afford to come over to stomp in her,

I agree with most of this, except US stole much of its technology from England and France. The Europeans used to complain nonstop about thieving Americans and said some of the same things about the US as it says about China today. When you're a backwards country, trying to develop at breakneck speed, the easiest way to do so is to steal secrets and force foreign companies to hand over technology and know-how as price of admission. US did plenty of that in its development.

PanAsian · May 10, 2017

Richard Santos said:
I don't care about the promotional rationalization. America is in material fact a power exceptional in her relative invulnerability, endowment of natural advantages in large variety of mineral and geographic resource, and a demography that bucks the normal adverse evolutionary trend which besets all other developed countries and china. Those are the things that count, not promotional rationalization.

Richard Santos said:
It is easy for a side that's long been weak and resentful of being treated as weak to point out the arrogance of those who had been strong, as if it itself would have avoid such arrogance if it had itself been similarly strong. And it is usually the memory of this self deceit which allows the same weak side, when it does eventually become strong, to dismiss all signs of the development of own new found overweening arrogance imparted by its own higher station in the pecking order.

Thereby promoted rationalizations matter, because in turn perception, as well as actual behavior, morality, and magnanimity all matter in addition to hard power.

There is a lot of talk around this forum lately about how only hard power matters especially with regards to US options, but that tends to lead to taking the low road which often undermines soft power.

The US can afford to take the high road exactly because of its hard power advantages and taking the high road can lead to increased soft power which can significantly augment hard power.

This is the unique challenge as well as privilege to being top dog.

dingyibvs · May 10, 2017

Richard Santos said:
I don't care about the promotional rationalization. America is in material fact a power exceptional in her relative invulnerability, endowment of natural advantages in large variety of mineral and geographic resource, and a demography that bucks the normal adverse evolutionary trend which besets all other developed countries and china. Those are the things that count, not promotional rationalization.

America is also in its infancy as a civilization, and democracy as well. In fact, if it wasn't for the rise of a very rare terra nova power in the United States, democracy would've died soon after birth in the 1940's. All great civilizations once enjoyed similar advantages, and they all eventually crumbled under its own weight, never to be reborn except for China.

It remains to be seen how long the U.S. and democracy can last, and frankly none of those things you listed is of any use to the survival of a civilization. They help civilizations survive clash of civilizations, but great civilizations always fall from within while the pressures from without can only be the straw that broke the camel's back. What keeps a civilization together through its ups and downs is a strong national identity and a tradition of strong centralized government, something democracy and the American demographic trends do not foster. In fact, it's quite important to note that whenever the U.S. has been under pressure, the first response is to become decidedly less democratic (e.g. patriot act, internment camps, etc. etc.).

AssassinsMace · May 10, 2017

I wonder why Americans are so paranoid over the world if all things favor the US. I'll tell you what the US doesn't have that's at the heart of American insecurity. It's not having 100% control over everything. Things that don't belong to them, they must be in control of. Power hungry people are never content. All you have to do is look at some of the members who are notorious for hiding behind American exceptionalism in here when the Russian/Ukraine situation started. They called for censoring and a ban on news sources in this site that didn't tow the US line. If the truth was on their side, they wouldn't be afraid of another thought and could easily out argue opposing or different views. But no, they need to control the information people get namely people who read this forum. And who are we in this forum. Heads of states? CEOs? No we're no ones. And look how they have to police everyone's thoughts even people not in positions of power. Now that's called insecurity not exceptionalism.

Equation · May 10, 2017

Blackstone said:
So, America uses its comprehensive national power to pursue its important interests. What of it? It's how the world works.

I know, but just don't complain when the world and other power works against the US interests. Meaning don't moan and bitch about it.

Equation · May 10, 2017

Blackstone said:
DPRK's threat of nuclear weapon usage is enough for me to support and demand my government do something about it.

How many innocent lives has been taken by this threat? Remember the US was the only one that uses the Atomic bombs for it's own interests (yes even it's during a war). Shouldn't you be afraid by the one's that had done the mass murdering? There is no such thing as righteous kill other than for self defense. Don't know why the real reason for the US to be afraid for the DPRK to defend themselves against an invader?

Equation · May 10, 2017

Richard Santos said:
No, it has a lot of fundamental geographic and demographic attributes which make it exceptional.

1. It is uniquely situated amongst any major nation such that it has no real landward geopolitical competitors, current or potential, and protected from any potential peer powers by oceanic distances.

2. It is the only major nation so situated that its access to the seas are not choked by geographic choke points.

3. it is the only developed, or for that matter, developing, country that is overendowed with arable land and still retain the capacity to support a large further increase in population. Therefore it is the only major developed country that faces no aging population crisis, and that retains the capacity to sustain significant economic growth rate over the next century. Currently there is one American for every 5 Chinese or Indian. Current population growth trends projects that in 100 years, there will be 6 Americans for every 10 Chinese or Indians.

4. It along with Russia and Brazil are the only major country with the geological potential for energy independence in the near future.

5. While its social and economic mobility is overhyped, it is still greater than those of any other major nation, and it has demonstrated the capacity to generate and profit from innovation greater than any other nation.

Of all the countries that had been great powers in the last 200 years, America is the only one that has fundamental reasons for being able remain so for the next 100 years.

1. Situated on Native American land that the whites had nearly murdered and colonized into extinction. There's nothing honorable or exceptional about that. Don't even get me started with slavery.

2. So is Australia and Canada. Nothing exceptional special about this.

3. Actually it will never catch up to the population growth like China and India. Diversity can be changed with a vibrant growing economy that attracts immigrants. And that's where China is at.

4. China will be energy independent as well with it's growing green technology, nuclear energy, and into the future nuclear fusion. Not to mention fossil fuel will become obsolete some day.

5. Any great nation innovation and profit growth. China has been doing that for thousands of years.

"Of all the countries that had been great powers in the last 200 years, America is the only one that has fundamental reasons for being able remain so for the next 100 years."
That kind of standard arrogance is why this country is in a declining. It doesn't want to see or adapt to the changing of the time and world.

China's strategy in Korean peninsula

Blackstone

Brigadier

Blackstone

Brigadier

Richard Santos

Captain

Blackstone

Brigadier

PanAsian

Major

dingyibvs

Senior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Equation

Lieutenant General

Equation

Lieutenant General

Equation

Lieutenant General