China's strategic vulnerabilities

PiSigma said:

That's because it was traditionally mongolian. The dzangars that were wiped out by kangxi were a mongol tribe. There are still plenty of Mongols there, that's why we don't like those foreign funded terrorists either.

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I'm not arguing against it. I'm pointing to the irony how China is expected to give up historical claims yet everyone else is still making themselves. Uighurs are not going to give up to Mongolians. If it's Mongolian territory, Uighurs have no claim. Mongol history is known for conquering. One really can't stake claim when that territory was conquered from them.

AssassinsMace said:

I knew a Mongolian family and they believed Xinjiang is Mongolian territory.

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Well, it won't hurt to do a bit of research on it. Xinjiang was a Mongol dominant territory.

And to make it even more convoluted, the Uyghurs actually migrated from modern day Mongolia west ward to modern day Xinjiang.

Not only so, the Göktürks (突厥), who were the first significant established power of the Turks, actually originated in modern day Mongolia, in around the 6th/7th century BC. Their rise replaced the existing Proto-Mongolic Rouran Khaganate (~330 AD to ~550 AD) there, and formed the First Turkic Khaganate. The Göktürks uses a runiform written language/script called the Orkhon Script or Old Turkic Script. There are many historical artifacts in modern Russian Siberia, for example, this one in Kizil city:


The most significant piece of artifact of the Göktürks is the Kul tigin Stele, in modern day Orkhon Valley in Mongolia:


Read more about this on Wikipedia:

jimmyjames30x30 said:

Well, it won't hurt to do a bit of research on it. Xinjiang was a Mongol dominant territory.

And to make it even more convoluted, the Uyghurs actually migrated from modern day Mongolia west ward to modern day Xinjiang.

Not only so, the Göktürks (突厥), who were the first significant established power of the Turks, actually originated in modern day Mongolia, in around the 6th/7th century BC. Their rise replaced the existing Proto-Mongolic Rouran Khaganate (~330 AD to ~550 AD) there, and formed the First Turkic Khaganate. The Göktürks uses a runiform written language/script called the Orkhon Script or Old Turkic Script. There are many historical artifacts in modern Russian Siberia, for example, this one in Kizil city:
View attachment 63608

The most significant piece of artifact of the Göktürks is the Kul tigin Stele, in modern day Orkhon Valley in Mongolia:
View attachment 63609

Read more about this on Wikipedia:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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I'm not arguing whether Xinjiang is Mongolian or not. I am arguing if you're a culture that brags about their history of conquering, don't complain about when you lose territory from being conquered.

AssassinsMace said:

I'm not arguing against it. I'm pointing to the irony how China is expected to give up historical claims yet everyone else is still making themselves. Uighurs are not going to give up to Mongolians. If it's Mongolian territory, Uighurs have no claim. Mongol history is known for conquering. One really can't stake claim when that territory was conquered from them.

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Well, it is to be expected. Because truthfully speaking, many of these so-called conquerors or nomadic legendary leaders might occupy a very significant part of our human memory, but their actual descendant often fared much worse than those they raided, invaded and conquered in the long run of history.

I understand how the Turks or the Mongols felt. think about it, their ancestors created plenty of powerful empires spanning territories much comparable to modern day China, US or Russia. But they themselves live in these small and insignificant fringe country that is nothing comparable to what they used to have. Of course they would have strong jealousy and discontent.

On the other hand, today's China is one of the largest and more prosperous stage of Chinese history. And if you look at Chinese history as a whole, even though we have our up and downs, China actually fared quite well in the entire spectrum of history.

Look at the extent of the First Turkic Khaganate built by the Göktürks, at the height of its power:


After the split of the Eastern and Western Khaganate, they were both destroyed by the Tang dynasty.
Look at the second Turkic Khaganate:


And guess what! The second Khaganate was later overthrown by Tang dynasty's favorite little buddy/sister: the Uyghurs.

Yes Mongol tribes once ruled in Xinjiang. But they were totally crushed by Qing China during the Qianlong period. It was on this era, this place is renamed Xinjiang.

History is written by the hands of the victors. Losers write history in social media.

AndrewS said:

@Gatekeeper

CBSA paper below on US-China strategy for the next 15 years.

Basically looking at 4 differing future possibilities for China.
Some of the future timeline stories are very unrealistic, which I won't go into.

But interestingly, 3 of the 4 economic scenarios still expect Chinese GDP to be 50%-100% larger than the USA in the year 2035.
And it also doesn't look very deeply at Chinese technology R&D spending.

3 of the 4 military scenarios also involve the US-alliance system breaking down or Taiwan being reunified.

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Wow, thanks for that. I quickly skimmed it. But will give it a good read, analyse and digest when I got more time.

Unfortunately I'm in the middle of preparing lecturers for my economics and accounting students because college has re-started again in the UK. There's so much happening in the economy like covid 19, Brexit, trade war. This is going to be a interesting year for my students.

So I'm up to my neck in it. I probably won't have time to contribute to this forum as much for the next few months. I'll still lurk around though.

But a big thank you all the same.

China is at its highest economic power in recent memory but ironically at its lowest soft power state.
Right now, China has very little allies and poor foreign countries are just using China for their benefit and yet deep down they don't have much respect and have negative viewpoint on China , especially after covid19.
At its high point of soft power was when China at its poorest and when Maoism and guerilla war tactics spreading across the globe. That was when admiration and respect for China at its highest point.
I guess you gain some and you lose some. You can't have everything.

TD739 said:

China is at its highest economic power in recent memory but ironically at its lowest soft power state.
Right now, China has very little allies and poor foreign countries are just using China for their benefit and yet deep down they don't have much respect and have negative viewpoint on China , especially after covid19.
At its high point of soft power was when China at its poorest and when Maoism and guerilla war tactics spreading across the globe. That was when admiration and respect for China at its highest point.
I guess you gain some and you lose some. You can't have everything.

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Sadly the entire world has been brainwashed with Anti- Communist propaganda for about a century now. China no matter how hard it tries cant change opinion of people in the rest of the world. All US does is scream communism and it negates whatever China does in the Soft power arena (despite the fact that China is far from being a communist nation).

TD739 said:

China is at its highest economic power in recent memory but ironically at its lowest soft power state.
Right now, China has very little allies and poor foreign countries are just using China for their benefit and yet deep down they don't have much respect and have negative viewpoint on China , especially after covid19.
At its high point of soft power was when China at its poorest and when Maoism and guerilla war tactics spreading across the globe. That was when admiration and respect for China at its highest point.
I guess you gain some and you lose some. You can't have everything.

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There are several causes for this. Some are independent of the actions of China.
Others are linked to certain PRC gov actions that come from a mixture of incompetence, insecurity and arrogance.

escobar said:

There are several causes for this. Some are independent of the actions of China.
Others are linked to certain PRC gov actions that come from a mixture of incompetence, insecurity and arrogance.

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Contrary to the Americans last century, China has little to no attractive cultural exports. For one not everyone understands or appreciates Chinese culture, secondly money only works to a certain degree but moreover one simply can‘t easily beat the whole ‚Sex, guns & Rock‘n‘Roll‘ story...

EDIT: Especially not the sex part...