China's Space Program News Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Moon

Junior Member
This would put China at a big disadvantage since NATO would still have the Military GPS signals therefore it could afford to "knock out" the Beidou signals in time of conflict.

China needs to step up its deployment of Beidou sats as Galileo is starting its full launch program this year.

@lostsoul, I think your assessment is totally off. Indeed, although China legally "wins" any dispute due to frequency interference because it has already been faster to deploy the first satellite, it is a fact that the Europeans had announced their choice and begun work on it before China acted on it. Therefore, this is a deliberate choice on the part of the Chinese, and I would be truly surprised to find that they had not understood the consequences beforehand.

In my own view, the choice was brilliant, and was executed in a brilliant way. The first thing to note is that there IS NO INTERFERENCE issue at all: both systems can work simultaneously without causing problems to each other. What has been hindered is the ability of one side to jam the others' military system, i.e., to perform an act of war against the other. Obviously this is beyond the jurisdiction of the ITU or any international body, for that matter. So I agree completely with your first statement (not quoted) to the effect that the recent "agreement" is just talk. In fact, both sides simply agreed to some sort of mutual face-saving ritual dance so that they can bury the matter, at a time when Sino-European relations have improved and are on an upward trend.

The SINO-EU cooperation on this matter took place in the 2003-4 period when relations between the Europeans and the US were rocky due, among other things, to the war in Iraq. The differences between the Americans and the Europeans (primarily France and Germany) were negotiated and more or less fixed in early 2005, and of course, China was the loser. It was then that China made its choice on frequencies for the Beidu system. Naturally, this was interpreted everywhere as China "holding grudges", playing tit-for-tat, "stealing" intellectual property, etc.

However, it is pure strategy. For the Chinese, there were, presumably, two choices. The first would have been to use an independent frequency, which would have left the four players (GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and Beidu) more or less on equal terms. But that's too simple, and they opted for something more interesting: overlapping with one of the existing players. Now, choosing either GLONASS or GPS would be rather provocative as both Russia and the US have long "borders" with China, as well as areas of strategic friction, and both naturally want to keep their options open. It is different with Europe, in spite of all the noise the Europeans made over this matter. Europe may have commercial conflicts with China, or disagreements over ideological matters, but no actual strategic conflict with the country. Nor does China have any strong reason to resist European strategic interests anywhere in the world, to the extent that Europe-wide interests even exist.

China's eventual choice, in effect, amounts to an undeclared and unilateral non-aggression pact with the Europeans. Although it is limited to munitions guided by this type of system, China is promising not to attack Europe. It is a promise which I believe costs China nothing, but which gives it certain advantages vis-a-vis the US. As it stands, the US can jam the Chinese system, but not without simultaneously screwing the Europeans. China, of course, would retaliate by jamming the American system, nullifying any American advantage. This would leave GLONASS alone... a very uncomfortable situation for the US. In a sort of 3-way game of chicken, I think the US would then move to erase this Russian advantage, and this leaves the US acting against all three rival systems, while China only acts against one.

While China's choice looks like an infringement on European "rights", in fact it is a gift to them, and it is a perfect answer to the double American demand, back in 2004-5, that the Europeans should 1) exclude China, and 2) NOT utilize frequencies overlapping with the American system. It was the Americans that set up this framework; China simply took advantage of it.
 

escobar

Brigadier
SJ-9A

001hegv_zpsa6589a46.jpg


SJ-9B

002pxu_zps78bda5a9.jpg
 

vesicles

Colonel
I too dismissed this conspiracy as something too impossible to happen, until I see the evidences for myself. Let me just say, of all the conspiracy theories I have come across, only this one have the most solid basis. You can see all the argument going back and forth between the opposing parties on youtube and other places. I think you will learn a lot of interesting stuffs no matter which side of the argument you finally end up.

Edit: This is one of the better documentary on the subject. (There are also one or more others which are in my opinion not so properly researched and, incidentally, become a target of attack for some of the hoax debunkers.)

[video=youtube;yo5w0pm24ic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo5w0pm24ic[/video]

Yes, I am familiar with all the "suspicion" people come up with. Some of the main points:
1) in one of the most famous photos, the astronaut was well-lit when he obviously was in the shadow of the landing craft. So there had to be a second light source, other than the Sun.
This is so because the "sand" on the moon is many many times more reflective than any common dirt on Earth. So the astronaut was lit by the light reflected by the sand on the surface of the moon. Thus, he was well-lit even thought he stayed in the shadow of the landing craft. If it was staged, wouldn't you expect the "director" would notice the obvious mistake? Anyone with any common sense would realize this.

2) the foot print looked like the sand was wet with water.
Again, the sand composition on the moon was so much different than that on Earth. It is able to maintain its shape much better because its particles are coarse than the sand on Earth. Also, without air, there is no friction to smooth any structure. With less gravity, the foot print also is able to maintain its shape much better than those on Earth.

3) the flag keeps flapping around even as the astronauts stopped moving in the video.
The main cause of that is less gravity and no air. With less gravity, any subject that attempts to defy gravity, i.e. flag flapping about, would stay in motion for much longer than on Earth. Also, without air, there is no friction to stop the flag from flapping around.

On one of the later Apollo missions, they sent a special mirror to the moon. Any normal mirror or any natural reflective material can only reflect the light back to its source when the light hits the mirror at 90 deg angle. However, the mirror brought up by the astronauts was specially made so that no matter what angle the light hits the mirror, the light always goes back to its source (kinda like the opposite of stealth). Ever since the mirror was sent up to the moon, scientists have been shooting lasers at the mirror in many experiments. Thus, proving there is a man-made material on the moon, thus demonstrating with 100% certainty that man has been to the moon.

Another point. In the late 60's and 70's, the US had been making movies for 6-7 decades and Hollywood was a fully established authority in special effects. People in Hollywood had been making Sci-fi movies about landing on another planet since the 20's. And people had been using miniatures on lighted stages in sci-fi/monster movies since the 1910's. You would think they would have figured out how to use proper light source, right props and most appropriate motion-stop techniques in perhaps the most sensitive "sci-fi movie" in history. If we can't pick out obvious mistakes in many of the classic sci-fi/special effect-heavy movies made prior to the 60's, they could certainly make the "fake moon landing" flawless.

The fact that we find so many "wrong things" in those videos and photos is simply because moon is a completely different world and things don't operate the same way on the moon as they would on Earth. plain and simple.
 
Last edited:

Quickie

Colonel
Yes, I am familiar with all the "suspicion" people come up with. Some of the main points:
1) in one of the most famous photos, the astronaut was well-lit when he obviously was in the shadow of the landing craft. So there had to be a second light source, other than the Sun.
This is so because the "sand" on the moon is many many times more reflective than any common dirt on Earth. So the astronaut was lit by the light reflected by the sand on the surface of the moon. Thus, he was well-lit even thought he stayed in the shadow of the landing craft. If it was staged, wouldn't you expect the "director" would notice the obvious mistake? Anyone with any common sense would realize this.

2) the foot print looked like the sand was wet with water.
Again, the sand composition on the moon was so much different than that on Earth. It is able to maintain its shape much better because its particles are coarse than the sand on Earth. Also, without air, there is no friction to smooth any structure. With less gravity, the foot print also is able to maintain its shape much better than those on Earth.

3) the flag keeps flapping around even as the astronauts stopped moving in the video.
The main cause of that is less gravity and no air. With less gravity, any subject that attempts to defy gravity, i.e. flag flapping about, would stay in motion for much longer than on Earth. Also, without air, there is no friction to stop the flag from flapping around.

On one of the later Apollo missions, they sent a special mirror to the moon. Any normal mirror or any natural reflective material can only reflect the light back to its source when the light hits the mirror at 90 deg angle. However, the mirror brought up by the astronauts was specially made so that no matter what angle the light hits the mirror, the light always goes back to its source (kinda like the opposite of stealth). Ever since the mirror was sent up to the moon, scientists have been shooting lasers at the mirror in many experiments. Thus, proving there is a man-made material on the moon, thus demonstrating with 100% certainty that man has been to the moon.

Another point. In the late 60's and 70's, the US had been making movies for 6-7 decades and Hollywood was a fully established authority in special effects. People in Hollywood had been making Sci-fi movies about landing on another planet since the 20's. And people had been using miniatures on lighted stages in sci-fi/monster movies since the 1910's. You would think they would have figured out how to use proper light source, right props and most appropriate motion-stop techniques in perhaps the most sensitive "sci-fi movie" in history. If we can't pick out obvious mistakes in many of the classic sci-fi/special effect-heavy movies made prior to the 60's, they could certainly make the "fake moon landing" flawless.

The fact that we find so many "wrong things" in those videos and photos is simply because moon is a completely different world and things don't operate the same way on the moon as they would on Earth. plain and simple.

Yes, I've heard of most of the arguments you mentioned, some of them were featured in Mythbusters. Most of these arguments are discussed in youtube, and one can see that there are about the same dislikes and likes for both the pro and against argument.

But let's not continue to derail the thread.
 

JsCh

Junior Member
On one of the later Apollo missions, they sent a special mirror to the moon. Any normal mirror or any natural reflective material can only reflect the light back to its source when the light hits the mirror at 90 deg angle. However, the mirror brought up by the astronauts was specially made so that no matter what angle the light hits the mirror, the light always goes back to its source (kinda like the opposite of stealth). Ever since the mirror was sent up to the moon, scientists have been shooting lasers at the mirror in many experiments. Thus, proving there is a man-made material on the moon, thus demonstrating with 100% certainty that man has been to the moon.

June 3, 2010: A Soviet robot lost on the dusty plains of the Moon for the past 40 years has been found again, and it is returning surprisingly strong laser pulses to Earth.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Just want to point out there is a problem with this particularly argument because last time I check the russian has never landed on the moon.
 

Maggern

Junior Member
Yes, I've heard of most of the arguments you mentioned, some of them were featured in Mythbusters. Most of these arguments are discussed in youtube, and one can see that there are about the same dislikes and likes for both the pro and against argument.

But let's not continue to derail the thread.

Unfortunately, truth and logic are not guided by popular vote. Frankly I have little respect for the views of YouTube commenters. Considering all the crap that comes out you cannot value all videos similarly. IMO, one authoritative article is worth a million amateur, YouTube-style ones...

Of course, to a conspiracy theorist, anyone actually qualified to discuss this topic is 'in on it', so that constitute a problem..
 
Last edited:

Franklin

Captain
Here is how the Apollo moon landings where faked. First the Apollo crafts indeed landed on the moon, but without the astronauts. They taped the entire moon walk in a movie studio and brought the tapes on to the Apollo craft and broadcasted it from the moon. The astronauts that when on the rockets are bums that NASA picked up on the streets of Cape Canaveral. They gave them a shave and a haircut and a few good meals and a few good nights sleep. One day someone comes in to their rooms and ask would you like to play astronaut !!! Then in a back room they fit the bums into astronauts flight suits and then drug them. As the real astronauts are being perpared and presented to the world press the drugged bums where already in the bus thats going to bring the astronauts to the Saturn rocket. As they arrive at the Saturn rocket the bums are being helped of the bus and strapped on the rocket while Neill Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins stay on the bus. As the Saturn rocket blast off they are taken to the CIA mind control division to brainwash them into believing that they really went to the moon!! They then put them in a Apollo pod and dropped them into the ocean and later where picked up by the USN that didn't know a thing. The real Apollo pods where never watertight so they sank into the ocean. The bums where already dead even before they touched down on the moon !! The camera crew that filmed the moon walk, the people that handled the film, the bus drivers and the crews that dropped the fake Apollo pods where either involved in "traffic accidents" or forced into asylums or simply disappeared. They got the moon rocks from a robotic arm attached to the Apollo space craft. And they repeated this feat seven times !! ;)
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Here is how the Apollo moon landings where faked. First the Apollo crafts indeed landed on the moon, but without the astronauts. They taped the entire moon walk in a movie studio and brought the tapes on to the Apollo craft and broadcasted it from the moon. The astronauts that when on the rockets are bums that NASA picked up on the streets of Cape Canaveral. They gave them a shave and a haircut and a few good meals and a few good nights sleep. One day someone comes in to their rooms and ask would you like to play astronaut !!! Then in a back room they fit the bums into astronauts flight suits and then drug them. As the real astronauts are being perpared and presented to the world press the drugged bums where already in the bus thats going to bring the astronauts to the Saturn rocket. As they arrive at the Saturn rocket the bums are being helped of the bus and strapped on the rocket while Neill Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins stay on the bus. As the Saturn rocket blast off they are taken to the CIA mind control division to brainwash them into believing that they really went to the moon!! They then put them in a Apollo pod and dropped them into the ocean and later where picked up by the USN that didn't know a thing. The real Apollo pods where never watertight so they sank into the ocean. The bums where already dead even before they touched down on the moon !! The camera crew that filmed the moon walk, the people that handled the film, the bus drivers and the crews that dropped the fake Apollo pods where either involved in "traffic accidents" or forced into asylums or simply disappeared. They got the moon rocks from a robotic arm attached to the Apollo space craft. And they repeated this feat seven times !! ;)


Okay, you stated your arguments, now I have a question. How do you explain the radiation collected on the astronauts coming from the sun? The Astronauts has to go through a decontamination period back on Earth before actually be free to walk and breathe the atmosphere again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top