China's Space Program News Thread

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taxiya

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Yeah no kidding. I remember hearing Scott Manley talking about the scaling up problem so I went to look it up again:

He says rocket experts he talk to reckon peak thrust for expander cycle engine is about 15 tons. To get 25 tons out of one engine would indicate CASC has worked thermodynamic black magic.
I think he made a mistake by saying 15 tonnes. Wikipedia says the theoretic upper limit is 30t presumably in vaccum. I am not saying we should trust wikipedia but I think it is very close. I have read somewhere else that the upper limit is 25t. Either way, the limit is much higher than 15t.

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The other engine in the same class is the now dead RL60 engine by Pratt & Whitney. Its vacuum thrust was aimed at 267kN, its sea level thrust aimed at 250kN. Although the engine never got to the point as far as YF-79, Pratt & Whitney apparently shares the same idea of 25t isn't something extreme.

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At the moment YF-79 aims at 243kN in vacuum. Even without black magic it is still the most powerful pure expander engine. Funny thing is that RL-60 isn't an American engine as its pumps are produced by Russia and Japan. China beats the top three. :D
 
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taxiya

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gelgoog

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Most powerful engine in category of expander cycle for second stages is ESA's Vinci. Like I said here before. 180 kN.
It will be used in the Ariane 6. The RL60 is pure vapor at this point.

I think the most powerful expander cycle period is the Japanese LE-X aka LE-9 engine in the Japanese H3 rocket. It uses a variant of the cycle called the expander bleed cycle.
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Since it is a first stage it is way larger.
 

iantsai

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2022年9月6日12时19分,我国在西昌卫星发射中心使用长征二号丁运载火箭,成功将遥感三十五号05组卫星发射升空。卫星顺利进入预定轨道,发射任务获得圆满成功。该卫星主要用于科学试验、国土资源普查、农产品估产及防灾减灾等领域。

此次任务是长征系列运载火箭第436次飞行。
China launched Yaogan-35/05 tripple satelites by CZ-2D rocket from Xichang Satelites Launch Center at 12:19 UTC+8, Sept 6, 2022.

It's the 436th CZ series launch mission.
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iantsai

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2022年9月6日10时24分,我国在酒泉卫星发射中心使用快舟一号甲遥十六运载火箭,成功将微厘空间一号S3/S4试验卫星发射升空。卫星顺利进入预定轨道,发射任务获得圆满成功。

此次任务是快舟一号甲系列运载火箭的第17次飞行。
China launched CentiSpace-1 S3 & S4 experiment satelites by KZ-1A/Y16 rocket from Jiuquan Satelites Launch Center at 10:24 UTC+8, Sept 6, 2022.

It's the 17th Kuaizhou series rockets launch mission.
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Strangelove

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China marks a milestone in new-gen heavy-duty rocket devt with successful engine test

By GT staff reporters Published: Sep 06, 2022 08:39 PM

The closed expander cycle hydrogen-oxygen rocket engine's first thrust chamber extrusion test in December 2021. Photo: from web

The closed expander cycle hydrogen-oxygen rocket engine's first thrust chamber extrusion test in December 2021. Photo: from web

China has successfully conducted a whole-craft running test for its 25 ton-level closed expander cycle hydrogen-oxygen rocket engine for the first time recently, which its developers claimed marked the world's largest scale testing for the kind and a key technology breakthrough for the country's development of the new-generation super heavy-lift launch vehicle.

The CASC revealed on its official website in December 2021 that the closed expander cycle hydrogen-oxygen rocket engine system has the advantages of high performance and high reliability, and has the ability of multiple starts and of large-scale variable thrust adjustment.

It can be used for complex space missions such as manned moon landing, manned Mars landing and deep space exploration, according to the CASC.

According to the CASC, the new engine, the most powerful one of its kind worldwide, is three times stronger than the ones currently deployed for the upper stage of Chinese rocket in active service, and reaches a world leading class. It is a landmark product that China has advanced to the world space power.

When reached by the Global Times on Tuesday, the engine developers with the Sixth Academy of the state-owned aerospace giant China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC), declined to provide further details of the new engine model and no video footage is available to show the test process. However, space observers speculated that the new engine system is likely to be used as the third stage and upper stage for the country's highly anticipated Long March-9 super heavy-lift rocket, which would boost China's future space endeavors in the fields including manned Moon and Mars landing, among other deep space exploration programs.

A space expert, who asked not to be named, told the Global Times on Tuesday that the exciting 25-ton engine being tested could be the YF-79 engines, which is even more powerful than the current YF-75D engine atop the Long March-5 - the strongest Chinese launch vehicle to date.

Four such YF-79 engines working in a group to constitute the third stage for the Long March-9 heavy duty vehicle, providing a thrust of some 100 tons, the expert noted.

So far, China has announced a successful running test for its domestically developed 500-ton level liquid-oxygen kerosene rocket engine, which is speculated to be codenamed the YF-130 rocket engine with a 50 percent rated working condition in March 2021; and the completion of the development of a prototype for the 220-ton YF-90 oxygen-hydrogen rocket engine in July 2021, according to media reports.

Space observers said that it seems that the YF-130 rocket engine for the Long March-9 vehicle's first stage, the YF-90 engine for the second stage, and now the YF-79 rocket engine for the third and upper stage have all achieved major development breakthroughs. China is moving closer to the final completion of the heavy-duty launch vehicle which will help the country to develop to be a world space power.

According to what Jiang Jie, the chief designer with the China Academy of Launch Vehicle who is also a China Academy of Sciences academician, has said in March, the development of the super heavy-lift which is of epoch-making significance, would take eight to 10 years.

Space observers noted that according to all the information gathered, the maiden flight for the new generation super heavy-lift vehicle could be expected within the next five year plan of 2026 to 30.
 

taxiya

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I think the most powerful expander cycle period is the Japanese LE-X aka LE-9 engine in the Japanese H3 rocket. It uses a variant of the cycle called the expander bleed cycle.
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The difference between a standard expander and expander bleed is equal to the difference between open cycle (such as RS-68) and closed cycle (such as RS-25). Nobody would call RS-68 and RS-25 as variants of one another. For the same logic, I would avoid mixing LE-9 with any standard expander engine such as YF-79. It is like orange and apple.
 
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