its a bit too late for a cease in construction activities now. they are going full speed ahead with their plans for the SCS, it wasn't a priority before but it is now. china has the expertise, equipment, manpower, political will and deep pockets to do these extensive island building projects. infrastructure building is one of their strengths and they will use it here. at this point I don't think china and the united states have anything much to talk about regarding the SCS because they are at the opposite ends.
China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
its a bit too late for a cease in construction activities now. they are going full speed ahead with their plans for the SCS, it wasn't a priority before but it is now. china has the expertise, equipment, manpower, political will and deep pockets to do these extensive island building projects. infrastructure building is one of their strengths and they will use it here. at this point I don't think china and the united states have anything much to talk about regarding the SCS because they are at the opposite ends.
agreed, now lets stop the sniping, and we'll all quit whining about being victims of the "press"??? please????
Brumby
Major
It was meant to be a facetious statement. The point being a topic of conversation should be on the merits, reasoning or what have you rather than it constantly degenerating into some sort of western conspiracy or PR against China.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
You mean just like the unfounded charge China spends billions in the "western press" to say nice things about China? I didn't see you have a problem with the merits and reasoning of that. You just have to see your own personal bias not noticing that from the person who brought all this up in the first place to see how no conspiracy is needed to be against China. I know it's not a conspiracy. It's the cultural fear of anything that's different.
中国商人：不会增加在越投资 南海不稳没安全感
Chinese businessmen: the South China Sea situation unstable and insecure in Vietnam, not increase investment
今年5月13日至15日发生在越南的针对外资的打砸抢烧事件给越南经济带来明显打击。越南计划投资部外国投资局统计资料显示，越南今年前7个月外国投资95.3亿美元，较去年同期下降19.9%。暴力事件更是给在越中国企业的未来蒙上阴影。时隔3个月，在越华商的现状如何？他们将继续留在越南，还是转移投资？《环球时报》记者对此进行了调查采访。在采访中，不少华商仍心有余悸，“这一事件带来的影响不是当天的破坏，而是将长期存在而且每天都可能发生意外的不确定性。”很多华商担心，如果越南的安全形势继续恶化，不仅中国企业数十年劳苦和全部生计化为乌有，而且人身安全保障存在巨大风险。
华商将目光转向越南周边
暴力事件刚结束的一段时间里，在越华商安全感大大降低。柬埔寨山东商会会长杨兆华因生意上的事情去过越南多次，他对《环球时报》记者表示，以前去越南住酒店，房间的电视还可以看到多个中文频道，现在能看到中文频道的酒店越来越少，而且越南的华人言谈举止也变得低调谨慎了。
浩斯实业(越南)有限公司总经理张玮在接受《环球时报》记者采访时说：“我们那时尽量避免去越南人聚集的场合。有同胞反映，在公共场合会被越南人追问南海争端。工业区一些非中资企业赶紧和中国公司切割，门口悬挂所属国国旗以示区分，这些举动给我们很大的压力。”
事情过去3个多月，越南的社会气氛几乎没有当时暴乱的痕迹了。张玮说，中国人现在能随便出去吃饭，和越南社会广泛接触了。越南政府的表现非常积极。例如，中资企业刚刚收到平阳省税务局公文，明确告知，当时人工遣散的机票住宿费用都可抵税。至于其他方面如打砸的赔偿，周期会很长，还没有具体落实。
谈到未来发展，张玮说，“我们不会在越南增加投资了。南海领土争端一天在不确定中，我们就一天没有安全感。缩小规模是未来的既定方向，大家的共识是不能再在越南多留流动资金。短期内中资企业没有在越扩大投资的可能性，而且这种形势对在越外资会产生整体上的消极影响。”据他了解，有中国企业本来要在越南扩建厂房，但事件发生后，改选在柬埔寨靠近越南边境的地方投资新厂。
“从目前来看，可能有大部分华商会留在越南维持现状。有小部分企业可能考虑转移到别的地方。”即发成安服装有限公司总经理宋晓芳告诉《环球时报》记者，该公司在越南的工厂保持现状，同时柬埔寨的经营也在做，之后会慢慢往柬埔寨转移。“当然，柬埔寨也不是很理想的选择，但没有别的办法，东南亚其他国家也没有太合适的。”宋晓芳说，很多人感觉菲律宾可能有仗要打，不敢去扩展。也有一些企业在考察缅甸市场，但也不是很合适。柬埔寨在效率等方面没有越南的环境好，可能相当于越南四五年前的水平。柬埔寨的假期较多，一年有1个多月都在放假，越南才十天左右假期。“但毕竟柬埔寨和中国的关系还挺好，而且人工成本相对较低，每月每人150美元，是越南的一半。所以，柬埔寨是一个相对比较合适的投资选择。”
多次率团考察东盟国家投资环境的中亚永恒中国资产控股有限公司董事长郑书武近日对《环球时报》记者说，她率领的一个由山东、北京、香港等地重量级工商界人士组成的代表团，在越南发生暴乱后取消了访越行程，随后很快在越南的邻国柬埔寨找到了投资机会--在柬埔寨西南沿海的贡布省建立一个经济特区。郑书武相信，这个经济特区将会吸引那些有意从越南转移到柬埔寨的投资者。柬埔寨贡布省省长奎坤华向《环球时报》记者证实，目前这个项目土地购置进展顺利，陆续有外国企业去省政府咨询进入经济特区的相关事宜。
来自山东潍坊桑莎集团的投资负责人李清华告诉《环球时报》记者，越南暴力事件发生后，不断有来自越南的外国投资者来该集团投资的位于柬越边境柬埔寨一侧的山东工业园考察洽谈，他们对柬埔寨丰富的劳动力资源及美欧发达经济体给予柬埔寨的贸易优惠待遇给予极高评价。“如果撇开胡志明港，构成投资环境的所有因素中，柬埔寨都要优于越南”。他说。
Auto Translation:
In May this year from 13 to 15 took place in Vietnam 's vandalism incidents against foreign investment to the Vietnamese economy was hit. Vietnam plans to invest Ministry of Foreign Investment Agency statistics show that Vietnam this year, seven months before the $ 9.53 billion of foreign investment, which fell 19.9%. Violence is given in the China cast a shadow over the future of the enterprise. After a lapse of three months, how the current situation in the Chinese businessmen? They will remain in Vietnam, or the transfer of investment? "Global Times" reporter conducted a survey interview. In interviews, many Chinese businessmen still haunt, "the impact of this incident was not caused by the destruction of that day, but there will be long-term and daily accidents that may occur uncertainty." Many Chinese entrepreneurs are worried that if the security situation continues to Vietnam worse, not only Chinese companies for decades toiling and all livelihoods vanish, but there is a huge risk of personal security.
Chinese businessmen turning to neighboring Vietnam
Violence just ended period of time, in the Chamber of security is greatly reduced. President of the Cambodian Chamber of Commerce of Shandong Yang Zhaohua because things have been to Vietnam many times on business, he told the "Global Times" reporter said that before going to Vietnam staying in a hotel, a TV room can also see more Chinese channels, can now see Chinese Channel The hotel is less and less, and the Chinese in Vietnam has become a low-key conversation cautious.
Bauhaus Industries (Vietnam) Co., Ltd., general manager Zhang Wei told the "Global Times" reporter, said: "We were going to avoid accumulation of occasions Vietnamese compatriots reflected in public places will be Vietnamese questioning. South China Sea dispute industrial zone some non-funded enterprises and Chinese companies quickly cut, the door hung the flag to show distinction belongs to the country, these moves give us a lot of pressure. "
Things in the past more than three months, the social climate in Vietnam was almost no trace of the riot. Zhang Wei said that the Chinese people are now able to just go out to dinner, and had extensive contacts with the Vietnamese community. Vietnamese government's performance is very positive. For example, Chinese companies have just received Binh Duong province IRD documents, explicitly told, when artificial severance airfare accommodation costs can be tax deductible. As for other aspects such as the thwarted compensation cycle will be very long, there is no specific implementation.
On the future development, Zhang Wei said, "We will not increase the investment in Vietnam. Territorial disputes in the South China Sea a day of uncertainty, we have no sense of security on the day. Established downsizing is the future direction of our consensus is no longer in Vietnam stay liquidity. funded enterprises in the short term there is no possibility of expanding investment in Vietnam, and this situation will have a negative impact on the overall foreign investment in Vietnam. "He understood that there was going to plant expansion of Chinese enterprises in Vietnam, But after the incident, re-election to invest in new plant in Cambodia near the Vietnam border.
"From the current point of view, it may be most Chinese businessmen will stay in Vietnam to maintain the status quo. Has a small part of the business might consider moving to another place." Clothing that is made into a safe, general manager Song Xiaofang told the "Global Times" reporter that the company Vietnam factories to maintain the status quo, while operating in Cambodia are doing, and then will gradually shift towards Cambodia. "Of course, Cambodia is not very ideal, but there is no other way, other Southeast Asian countries are also not too appropriate." Song Xiaofang said that many people feel the Philippines may have a battle to fight, not to expand. There are also some companies visit Myanmar in the market, but is not very appropriate. Vietnam, Cambodia, no good environment in terms of efficiency, etc., may be equivalent to the level in Vietnam 45 years ago. Holidays in Cambodia more, there are more than one month a year on holiday, Vietnam was about ten days holiday. "But after all, the relationship between Cambodia and China is also very good, and relatively low labor costs, $ 150 per person per month, which is half Vietnamese, so Cambodia is a relatively appropriate investment choices."
Repeatedly led a delegation to study the investment environment in ASEAN countries in Central Asia eternal China Asset Holdings Ltd chairman Zheng Shuwu recently on the "Global Times" reporter, said one from Shandong, Beijing, Hong Kong and other places heavyweight composed of representatives of the business community led her group, after Vietnam riots canceled visit to Vietnam trip, then quickly in neighboring Vietnam, Cambodia to find investment opportunities - the establishment of a special economic zone in the southwest coast of the Cambodian province of Kampot. Zheng Shuwu believe that this economic zones will attract investors who intend to transfer from Vietnam to Cambodia. Cambodia's Kampot province governor Kui Hua Kun to the "Global Times" reporter confirmed that the current land acquisition of the project is progressing well, after another foreign companies to enter the provincial government advisory matters related to special economic zones.
From Shandong Weifang 桑莎 Investment Group Leader Li Qinghua told the "Global Times" reporter, after violent incidents in Vietnam, there have been foreign investors from Vietnam to the Group's investment in Shandong Industrial Park visits Cambodia Cambodia-Vietnam border side to negotiate They Cambodia abundant labor resources and developed economies, the United States and Europe to give trade preferences to Cambodia to give a high evaluation. "If you put aside Ho Chi Minh Hong Kong, all the factors that constitute the investment environment in Cambodia is better than Vietnam." He said.
Chinese businessmen: the South China Sea situation unstable and insecure in Vietnam, not increase investment
今年5月13日至15日发生在越南的针对外资的打砸抢烧事件给越南经济带来明显打击。越南计划投资部外国投资局统计资料显示，越南今年前7个月外国投资95.3亿美元，较去年同期下降19.9%。暴力事件更是给在越中国企业的未来蒙上阴影。时隔3个月，在越华商的现状如何？他们将继续留在越南，还是转移投资？《环球时报》记者对此进行了调查采访。在采访中，不少华商仍心有余悸，“这一事件带来的影响不是当天的破坏，而是将长期存在而且每天都可能发生意外的不确定性。”很多华商担心，如果越南的安全形势继续恶化，不仅中国企业数十年劳苦和全部生计化为乌有，而且人身安全保障存在巨大风险。
华商将目光转向越南周边
暴力事件刚结束的一段时间里，在越华商安全感大大降低。柬埔寨山东商会会长杨兆华因生意上的事情去过越南多次，他对《环球时报》记者表示，以前去越南住酒店，房间的电视还可以看到多个中文频道，现在能看到中文频道的酒店越来越少，而且越南的华人言谈举止也变得低调谨慎了。
浩斯实业(越南)有限公司总经理张玮在接受《环球时报》记者采访时说：“我们那时尽量避免去越南人聚集的场合。有同胞反映，在公共场合会被越南人追问南海争端。工业区一些非中资企业赶紧和中国公司切割，门口悬挂所属国国旗以示区分，这些举动给我们很大的压力。”
事情过去3个多月，越南的社会气氛几乎没有当时暴乱的痕迹了。张玮说，中国人现在能随便出去吃饭，和越南社会广泛接触了。越南政府的表现非常积极。例如，中资企业刚刚收到平阳省税务局公文，明确告知，当时人工遣散的机票住宿费用都可抵税。至于其他方面如打砸的赔偿，周期会很长，还没有具体落实。
谈到未来发展，张玮说，“我们不会在越南增加投资了。南海领土争端一天在不确定中，我们就一天没有安全感。缩小规模是未来的既定方向，大家的共识是不能再在越南多留流动资金。短期内中资企业没有在越扩大投资的可能性，而且这种形势对在越外资会产生整体上的消极影响。”据他了解，有中国企业本来要在越南扩建厂房，但事件发生后，改选在柬埔寨靠近越南边境的地方投资新厂。
“从目前来看，可能有大部分华商会留在越南维持现状。有小部分企业可能考虑转移到别的地方。”即发成安服装有限公司总经理宋晓芳告诉《环球时报》记者，该公司在越南的工厂保持现状，同时柬埔寨的经营也在做，之后会慢慢往柬埔寨转移。“当然，柬埔寨也不是很理想的选择，但没有别的办法，东南亚其他国家也没有太合适的。”宋晓芳说，很多人感觉菲律宾可能有仗要打，不敢去扩展。也有一些企业在考察缅甸市场，但也不是很合适。柬埔寨在效率等方面没有越南的环境好，可能相当于越南四五年前的水平。柬埔寨的假期较多，一年有1个多月都在放假，越南才十天左右假期。“但毕竟柬埔寨和中国的关系还挺好，而且人工成本相对较低，每月每人150美元，是越南的一半。所以，柬埔寨是一个相对比较合适的投资选择。”
多次率团考察东盟国家投资环境的中亚永恒中国资产控股有限公司董事长郑书武近日对《环球时报》记者说，她率领的一个由山东、北京、香港等地重量级工商界人士组成的代表团，在越南发生暴乱后取消了访越行程，随后很快在越南的邻国柬埔寨找到了投资机会--在柬埔寨西南沿海的贡布省建立一个经济特区。郑书武相信，这个经济特区将会吸引那些有意从越南转移到柬埔寨的投资者。柬埔寨贡布省省长奎坤华向《环球时报》记者证实，目前这个项目土地购置进展顺利，陆续有外国企业去省政府咨询进入经济特区的相关事宜。
来自山东潍坊桑莎集团的投资负责人李清华告诉《环球时报》记者，越南暴力事件发生后，不断有来自越南的外国投资者来该集团投资的位于柬越边境柬埔寨一侧的山东工业园考察洽谈，他们对柬埔寨丰富的劳动力资源及美欧发达经济体给予柬埔寨的贸易优惠待遇给予极高评价。“如果撇开胡志明港，构成投资环境的所有因素中，柬埔寨都要优于越南”。他说。
Auto Translation:
In May this year from 13 to 15 took place in Vietnam 's vandalism incidents against foreign investment to the Vietnamese economy was hit. Vietnam plans to invest Ministry of Foreign Investment Agency statistics show that Vietnam this year, seven months before the $ 9.53 billion of foreign investment, which fell 19.9%. Violence is given in the China cast a shadow over the future of the enterprise. After a lapse of three months, how the current situation in the Chinese businessmen? They will remain in Vietnam, or the transfer of investment? "Global Times" reporter conducted a survey interview. In interviews, many Chinese businessmen still haunt, "the impact of this incident was not caused by the destruction of that day, but there will be long-term and daily accidents that may occur uncertainty." Many Chinese entrepreneurs are worried that if the security situation continues to Vietnam worse, not only Chinese companies for decades toiling and all livelihoods vanish, but there is a huge risk of personal security.
Chinese businessmen turning to neighboring Vietnam
Violence just ended period of time, in the Chamber of security is greatly reduced. President of the Cambodian Chamber of Commerce of Shandong Yang Zhaohua because things have been to Vietnam many times on business, he told the "Global Times" reporter said that before going to Vietnam staying in a hotel, a TV room can also see more Chinese channels, can now see Chinese Channel The hotel is less and less, and the Chinese in Vietnam has become a low-key conversation cautious.
Bauhaus Industries (Vietnam) Co., Ltd., general manager Zhang Wei told the "Global Times" reporter, said: "We were going to avoid accumulation of occasions Vietnamese compatriots reflected in public places will be Vietnamese questioning. South China Sea dispute industrial zone some non-funded enterprises and Chinese companies quickly cut, the door hung the flag to show distinction belongs to the country, these moves give us a lot of pressure. "
Things in the past more than three months, the social climate in Vietnam was almost no trace of the riot. Zhang Wei said that the Chinese people are now able to just go out to dinner, and had extensive contacts with the Vietnamese community. Vietnamese government's performance is very positive. For example, Chinese companies have just received Binh Duong province IRD documents, explicitly told, when artificial severance airfare accommodation costs can be tax deductible. As for other aspects such as the thwarted compensation cycle will be very long, there is no specific implementation.
On the future development, Zhang Wei said, "We will not increase the investment in Vietnam. Territorial disputes in the South China Sea a day of uncertainty, we have no sense of security on the day. Established downsizing is the future direction of our consensus is no longer in Vietnam stay liquidity. funded enterprises in the short term there is no possibility of expanding investment in Vietnam, and this situation will have a negative impact on the overall foreign investment in Vietnam. "He understood that there was going to plant expansion of Chinese enterprises in Vietnam, But after the incident, re-election to invest in new plant in Cambodia near the Vietnam border.
"From the current point of view, it may be most Chinese businessmen will stay in Vietnam to maintain the status quo. Has a small part of the business might consider moving to another place." Clothing that is made into a safe, general manager Song Xiaofang told the "Global Times" reporter that the company Vietnam factories to maintain the status quo, while operating in Cambodia are doing, and then will gradually shift towards Cambodia. "Of course, Cambodia is not very ideal, but there is no other way, other Southeast Asian countries are also not too appropriate." Song Xiaofang said that many people feel the Philippines may have a battle to fight, not to expand. There are also some companies visit Myanmar in the market, but is not very appropriate. Vietnam, Cambodia, no good environment in terms of efficiency, etc., may be equivalent to the level in Vietnam 45 years ago. Holidays in Cambodia more, there are more than one month a year on holiday, Vietnam was about ten days holiday. "But after all, the relationship between Cambodia and China is also very good, and relatively low labor costs, $ 150 per person per month, which is half Vietnamese, so Cambodia is a relatively appropriate investment choices."
Repeatedly led a delegation to study the investment environment in ASEAN countries in Central Asia eternal China Asset Holdings Ltd chairman Zheng Shuwu recently on the "Global Times" reporter, said one from Shandong, Beijing, Hong Kong and other places heavyweight composed of representatives of the business community led her group, after Vietnam riots canceled visit to Vietnam trip, then quickly in neighboring Vietnam, Cambodia to find investment opportunities - the establishment of a special economic zone in the southwest coast of the Cambodian province of Kampot. Zheng Shuwu believe that this economic zones will attract investors who intend to transfer from Vietnam to Cambodia. Cambodia's Kampot province governor Kui Hua Kun to the "Global Times" reporter confirmed that the current land acquisition of the project is progressing well, after another foreign companies to enter the provincial government advisory matters related to special economic zones.
From Shandong Weifang 桑莎 Investment Group Leader Li Qinghua told the "Global Times" reporter, after violent incidents in Vietnam, there have been foreign investors from Vietnam to the Group's investment in Shandong Industrial Park visits Cambodia Cambodia-Vietnam border side to negotiate They Cambodia abundant labor resources and developed economies, the United States and Europe to give trade preferences to Cambodia to give a high evaluation. "If you put aside Ho Chi Minh Hong Kong, all the factors that constitute the investment environment in Cambodia is better than Vietnam." He said.
Brumby
Major
I don't see it as a problem not because it may lack merits but rather I see that it was also made in jest. The sooner we get out of this media stuff and what have you, the topic can then revert to a more concrete (and hopefully) exchange of views.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I didn't bring up conspiracy theories or playing victim. Like you don't think Janiz charging China is paying the Western press billions of dollars to say nice things about China and bad things about the US and the West is far-fetched? So who's the one derailing the conversation? No one needs to play victim or charge conspiracy theory to know for a fact the Western press is biased. People only bring those two terms up to immediately discount it. If the Chinese media like the Global Times were to think like the Western media, they would bring up how the West is plotting to take over the world again because they have a history of colonialism? They would write stories of how the West is planning to enslave the world again. I wish the Chinese media would do that just to give back a taste of their own medicine.
joshuatree
Captain
I think these are pics of two different islands myself. When photos popped up on reclamation at Johnson South Reef a few months back, the shape did not resemble the first pic and was already much bigger.
First Pic
Second Pic - Johnson South Reef
March 2014 Reclamation Pic - notice N orientation
I also think Philippine media is confusing some of these islands. The link below includes the first pic but Philippine media reports it as Kennan (Chigua) Reef. This is already wrong for the Chinese call Johnson South Reef Chigua. But the Filipinos call Johnson South Reef as Mabini Reef. In this article, it has a separate paragraph for both Kennan and Mabini. Further research indicates Kennan Reef is also sometimes called McKennan Reef and is 1 mile west of Hughes Reef (Dongmen Jiao). Because of close proximity to Hughes, it is virtually occupied by China. Hughes does have an existing two story outpost so if the paragraph about Kennan is correct on addition of helipad, I strongly believe first pic is Hughes Reef / Dongmen Jiao.
I think these are pics of two different islands myself. When photos popped up on reclamation at Johnson South Reef a few months back, the shape did not resemble the first pic and was already much bigger.
First Pic
Second Pic - Johnson South Reef
March 2014 Reclamation Pic - notice N orientation
I also think Philippine media is confusing some of these islands. The link below includes the first pic but Philippine media reports it as Kennan (Chigua) Reef. This is already wrong for the Chinese call Johnson South Reef Chigua. But the Filipinos call Johnson South Reef as Mabini Reef. In this article, it has a separate paragraph for both Kennan and Mabini. Further research indicates Kennan Reef is also sometimes called McKennan Reef and is 1 mile west of Hughes Reef (Dongmen Jiao). Because of close proximity to Hughes, it is virtually occupied by China. Hughes does have an existing two story outpost so if the paragraph about Kennan is correct on addition of helipad, I strongly believe first pic is Hughes Reef / Dongmen Jiao.
great pictures. do you know who actually took these pictures? American surveillance aircraft? the quality is amazing, let's hope we have more coming.