China's SCS Strategy Thread

Ultra

Junior Member
Well I am surprised nobody talked about Trump just sent an Aegis ship WITHIN 12 Miles of Mischief. All that talk about Trump being friendlier than Obama just all went out the door now. LOL!

US policy in SCS will not change. Its "same shit different toilet".


I am very curious, when the tables are turned, would US ever allow PLAN CVBGs or warships doing regular FONOP near US mainland? What do the americans here feel about that?
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Well I am surprised nobody talked about Trump just sent an Aegis ship WITHIN 12 Miles of Mischief. All that talk about Trump being friendlier than Obama just all went out the door now. LOL!

US policy in SCS will not change. Its "same shit different toilet".


I am very curious, when the tables are turned, would US ever allow PLAN CVBGs or warships doing regular FONOP near US mainland? What do the americans here feel about that?
My guess is should PLAN sail ships off California coast, then conservative media like Fox News would whip up nativist sentiments and lunatics like John McCain would demand bombings. But, the adults in the room (Pentagon, State Dept.) would point out China has the same rights to FON as the US, and then the issue would settle down till the next PLAN squadron sail off US coasts. Bank on it.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The land war being referred to is Korea.

If Australia listened to our hawks on China, we'd have been hung out to dry
Sydney Morning Herald
MAY 24 2017 - 12:41AM
Australia should pay close attention to Indonesia's increasing Islamist climate, because what goes on in Indonesia affects Australia far, far, far more than the South China Sea. I say that because, absent war, China has no interest closing trade passage in SCS, while should Indonesia become far more Islamist, they might look south to Australia as a soft and juicy target.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
My guess is should PLAN sail ships off California coast, then conservative media like Fox News would whip up nativist sentiments and lunatics like John McCain would demand bombings. But, the adults in the room (Pentagon, State Dept.) would point out China has the same rights to FON as the US, and then the issue would settle down till the next PLAN squadron sail off US coasts. Bank on it.


No they wouldn't. They would sink the PLAN ships or threaten nuclear annhilation on China if Coldwar was any indication. Remember that little incident called The Cuban Missile Crisis?
 

Janiz

Senior Member
What do the americans here feel about that?
We don't know. First of all US must start making air bases on Pacific reefs which they had transformed earlier as 'unique American territory for millennia' into islands. I think Fiji would be a good start. And what would poor Fijians do? Probably nothing as they don't have aircraft carriers. Tough luck for them! When Australia would start blaming US for unfair politics and bullying the weaker US would simply reply - 'None of your bussiness!'. Maybe Fijians would call PLAN for help and organize some FON operations around new US bases?

This is quiet probable scenario as it's exactly what's happening right now in SCS I assume?
 

jobjed

Captain
We don't know. First of all US must start making air bases on Pacific reefs which they had transformed earlier as 'unique American territory for millennia' into islands. I think Fiji would be a good start. And what would poor Fijians do? Probably nothing as they don't have aircraft carriers. Tough luck for them! When Australia would start blaming US for unfair politics and bullying the weaker US would simply reply - 'None of your bussiness!'. Maybe Fijians would call PLAN for help and organize some FON operations around new US bases?

This is quiet probable scenario as it's exactly what's happening right now in SCS I assume?

I like how you just ignored centuries of history. You're worse than an ostrich. They shove their heads in the sand and imagine the predator's gone, you shove your head up your arse and imagine centuries of history gone.
 

Janiz

Senior Member
They shove their heads in the sand and imagine the predator's gone, you shove your head up your arse and imagine centuries of history gone.
But what current situation have to do with 'centuries of history'? I just showed how it would look if US would make exactly the same actions as PRC in a few recent years, not centuries... What's wrong with that?

And stop those arguments with 'shoving your head up your arse' as those are pretty inappropriate on this board and against the rules I assume.
 
Well I am surprised nobody talked about Trump just sent an Aegis ship WITHIN 12 Miles of Mischief. All that talk about Trump being friendlier than Obama just all went out the door now. LOL!

US policy in SCS will not change. Its "same shit different toilet".


I am very curious, when the tables are turned, would US ever allow PLAN CVBGs or warships doing regular FONOP near US mainland? What do the americans here feel about that?

The latest FONOP, first under Trump, was done in a low key way which is how it's typically done unlike the highly publicized ones during the later years under Obama. And note Trump's submarines mention during his call with Duterte. If planned it's a subtle yet effective show of force strategy by the US to China that also plays to the US' advantage propaganda-wise.

Here's an article that includes the response from China:
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WORLD NEWS | Thu May 25, 2017 | 8:10am EDT
In first under Trump, U.S. warship challenges Beijing's claims in South China Sea

By Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart | WASHINGTON
A U.S. Navy warship sailed within 12 nautical miles of an artificial island built up by China in the South China Sea, U.S. officials said on Wednesday, the first such challenge to Beijing in the strategic waterway since U.S. President Donald Trump took office.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the USS Dewey traveled close to the Mischief Reef in the Spratly Islands, among a string of islets, reefs and shoals over which China has territorial disputes with its neighbors.

China said its warships had warned the U.S. ship and it lodged "stern representations" with the United States. China said it remained resolutely opposed to so-called freedom of navigation operations.

The U.S. patrol, the first of its kind since October, marked the latest attempt to counter what Washington sees as Beijing's efforts to limit freedom of navigation in the strategic waters, and comes as Trump is seeking China's cooperation to rein in ally North Korea's nuclear and missile programs.

Territorial waters are generally defined by U.N. convention as extending at most 12 nautical miles from a state's coastline.

One U.S. official said it was the first operation near a land feature which was included in a ruling last year against China by an international arbitration court in The Hague. The court invalidated China's claim to sovereignty over large swathes of the South China Sea.

The United States has criticized China's construction of islands and build-up of military facilities in the sea, and is concerned they could be used to restrict free movement.

U.S. allies and partners in the region had grown anxious as the Trump administration held off on carrying out South China Sea operations during its first few months in office.

Last month, top U.S. commander in the Asia-Pacific region, Admiral Harry Harris, said the United States would likely carry out freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea soon.

Still, the U.S. military has a long-standing position that the operations are carried out throughout the world, including in areas claimed by allies, and they are separate from political considerations.

The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Dewey prepares for a replenishment-at-sea in the South China Sea May 19, 2017. Picture taken May 19, 2017. Kryzentia Weiermann/Courtesy U.S. Navy/Handout via REUTERS

"We operate in the Asia-Pacific region on a daily basis, including in the South China Sea. We operate in accordance with international law," Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said in a statement.

The Pentagon gave no details of the latest mission.

'ERRANT WAYS'

Chinese defense ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang told a monthly briefing two Chinese guided-missile warships had warned the U.S. vessel to leave the waters, and China had complained to the United States.

"The U.S. side's errant ways have caused damage to the improving situation in the South China Sea, and are not conducive to peace and stability," Ren said.

Ren was referring to a recent of easing of tension between China and other claimants, in particular the Philippines.

China's extensive claims to the South China Sea, which sees about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade pass every year, are challenged by Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam, as well as Taiwan.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said such patrols were "very likely to cause unexpected sea and air accidents".

Under the previous U.S. administration, the Navy conducted several such voyages through the South China Sea. The last operation was approved by then-President Barack Obama.

The latest U.S. patrol is likely to exacerbate U.S.-China tensions that had eased since Trump hosted Chinese President Xi Jinping for a summit in Florida resort last month.

China says U.S patrol severely disrupts South China Sea negotiations
Trump lambasted China during the 2016 presidential campaign, accusing it of stealing U.S. jobs with unfair trade policies, manipulating its currency and militarizing parts of the South China Sea.

In December, after winning office, he upended protocol by taking a call from the president of self-ruled Taiwan, which China regards as its own sacred territory.

But since meeting Xi, Trump has praised him for efforts to restrain North Korea, though it has persisted with ballistic missile tests.

U.S.-based South China Sea expert Greg Poling of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the operation was the first conducted by the United States close to an artificial feature built by China not entitled to a territorial sea under international law.

Previous freedom of navigation operations have gone within 12 nautical miles of Subi and Fiery Cross reefs, two other features in the Spratlys built up by China, but both of those features are entitled to a territorial sea.

Mischief Reef was not entitled to a territorial sea as it was underwater at high tide before it was built up by China and was not close enough to another feature entitled to such a territorial sea, said Poling.

He said the key question was whether the U.S. warship had engaged in a real challenge to the Chinese claims by turning on radar or launching a helicopter or boat - actions not permitted in a territorial sea under international law.

Otherwise, critics say, the operation would have resembled what is known as "innocent passage" and could have reinforced rather than challenged China's claim to a territorial limit around the reef.

(Reporting by Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart in Washington, and Ben Blanchard and Christian Shepherd in Beijing; Additional reporting and writing by Matt Spetalnick and David Brunnstrom; Editing by Cynthia Osterman and Sandra Maler)
 
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jobjed

Captain
But what current situation have to do with 'centuries of history'? I just showed how it would look if US would make exactly the same actions as PRC in a few recent years, not centuries... What's wrong with that?

China sighted, exploited, and claimed the terrestrial features in the SCS centuries before white dudes even set eyes on the North American continent.

By contrast, you're proposing the US evict the indigenous settlers of Fiji so they can make it a military base.

No, there is no comparison between the two. One's laying claim to unclaimed land. The other is taking land that others have already claimed.
 
The latest FONOP, first under Trump, was done in a low key way which is how it's typically done unlike the highly publicized ones during the later years under Obama. And note Trump's submarines mention during his call with Duterte. If planned it's a subtle yet effective show of force strategy by the US to China that also plays to the US' advantage propaganda-wise.

Here's an article that includes the response from China:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Actually here's the Chinese coverage of the story which differs a bit from Reuters' characterization. The ships involved are a 051C and a 054A.

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Defense Ministry warns against US warship in South China Sea
SourceChina Daily
EditorZhang Tao
Time2017-05-25

The Chinese navy deployed two missile frigates on Thursday to expel a US Navy warship sailing close to China's Nansha Islands without permission, a Ministry of Defense spokesman said.

Guide-missile frigates Liuzhou and Luzhou were deployed to identify and warn the USS Dewey that entered waters of China's Nansha Islands to leave, ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said at a regular news conference.

Foreign media reported that the USS Dewey sailed less than 12 nautical miles from the Meiji reef of the Nansha Islands on Thursday morning, the first such practice under the administration of Donald Trump.

"China has undisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their surrounding waters," Ren said. "We strongly oppose such practice of the US military, which shows off its might, promotes regional militarization and easily causes unexpected air and sea accidents."

He said that China has made solemn representations to the US side over the matter.

Thanks to the joint efforts of China and ASEAN countries, the situation in the South China Sea is cooling down and showing positive signs of development, Ren said.

"But the wrong practice of the US side disrupts the improving situation and goes against the peace and stability of the South China Sea," he added.

Ren said healthy and steady military relations between China and the US are in line with the common interests of two countries, and it needs the concerted efforts of both sides.

"We urge the US to take concrete measures to correct the mistake and inject positive energy into the development of bilateral military relations," he said.

"Such wrong conduct of the US military will only encourage the Chinese army to further strengthen its capacity building and firmly defend our national sovereignty and security," Ren said.
 
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