China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
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Recent article on China's viewpoint on commercial shipping.
This would be consistent with the fact that China is the world's largest trading nation and sits at the heart of the asian trading network. Most of China's trade passes through the South China Seas and it would not want this trade disrupted in any circumstances. And if anyone ever gets round to the analysis, I suspect that the figures will show Chinese trade dominates traffic in the SCS.
Article below.
This would be consistent with the fact that China is the world's largest trading nation and sits at the heart of the asian trading network. Most of China's trade passes through the South China Seas and it would not want this trade disrupted in any circumstances. And if anyone ever gets round to the analysis, I suspect that the figures will show Chinese trade dominates traffic in the SCS.
Article below.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
That is so not the point.
The point is that by not rectifying, the US could choose to violate any and all provisions under UNCLOS as and when it suits them.
You cannot insist that others be bound by rules you yourself refuse to be bound by. That would fly right in the face of a rules based international system if there is a two-tier system in place, where the US uses rules and laws to control the behaviour of others while refusing to commit to abiding by those rules itself.
The first principle of a rules based system is that rules have to apply equally to all.
Blackstone
Brigadier
It's a valid criticism that US hasn't ratified UNCLOS, even though every president has announced intentions to abide by the treaty, and have done just that. But, to the rest of the world, it looks like US says one thing and does another.
Nevertheless, successive Administrations have followed the treaty, and for all practical purposes, it's official US policy. That is the bottom line to gauge what nations do vs. what they say. In that spirit, I ask again what UNCLOS laws do you say US breached?
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Maritime and underwater surveillance. The UNCLOS specify that military free passage is guarantee inside the economic zone providing it is with peaceful intention.
Snooping is generally not consider as friendly or peaceful gesture. But the US use military personnel sans uniform to do the maritime surveillance to bypass this provision . It is sleigh of hand .Whether it is military personnel with civilian clothing or with uniform it is still the same job surveillance and gathering ocenographic data for military purposes. Anyway on different tack. I like this quote. This statement show that China will be there for forever and SEA nation better get use to it. It is the principle of "finder keeper" or "Uti possidetis" (Latin for "as you possess") is a principle in international law that territory and other property remains with its possessor at the end of a conflict.
“China was the first country to discover, name, develop and manage the South China Sea islands,” the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, told a news conference on Tuesday. “History will prove who is a mere guest and who is a real host.” Wang Yi
South China Sea Buildup
The People’s Liberation Army Navy patrolling on Woody Island, in the Paracel chain, in January. Credit Reuters
HONG KONG — When the aircraft carrier John C. Stennis and four other American warships sailed into the South China Sea last week for what were described as routine exercises, the message was clear: The United States is the dominant military power in the region and plans to keep it that way.
But numerous Chinese naval ships were operating nearby, the said, noticeably more than in past years. A Chinese officer told the state-run news media that the ships were there to “monitor, identify, follow and expel” foreign vessels and aircraft, depending on how close they came “to our islands.”
The encounter, which passed without incident, was the latest episode in a wary standoff between the United States and China over two contested island chains know
n as the Paracels and the Spratlys.
Since taking office three years ago, President Xi Jinping has used the isles to expand China’s military footprint in the region, taking one step after another far from the Chinese mainland over protests from its neighbors and from Washington.
The scale of the multibillion-dollar effort has raised tensions in the region and strengthened China’s disputed claim to the entirety of the South China Sea, home to some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes.
The buildup has also challenged the military status quo in the Western Pacific since the end of , bringing China closer to its goal of establishing a security buffer extending far from its coast — a dream of Chinese strategists since the Korean War.
“China wants a bathtub,” said Marc Lanteigne, a senior research fellow at the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs who studies Chinese foreign policy, drawing a comparison with American dominance in the Caribbean. “China wants waters that are theirs, that they can operate military and police vessels in, without having to worry about the presence of the U.S. or the Philippines or Vietnamese or Indian naval forces.”
The buildup has proceeded incrementally but remarkably swiftly given that China and its neighbors have been locked in a stalemate over the islands that has simmered for decades. Dredging of sand to build atop coral reefs in the Spratlys began as early as 2014 but accelerated last year, and the isles now feature deepwater harbors and long runways suitable for warships and fighter jets.
Then surface-to-air appeared last month in the Paracels, more than 300 miles to the north. Now satellite photos show what seem to be , potentially extending the kill zone of missiles on the Chinese mainland that are devised to sink aircraft carriers.
The new fortifications pose little threat to the United States military, which could easily destroy them in a conflict.
Photo
An aerial view of the artificial islands that China is said to have built in disputed waters in the South China Sea, west of Palawan, Philippines, in 2015. Credit Pool photo by Ritchie B. Tongo
But American officials are increasingly worried that the buildup, if unchecked, will give China de facto control of an expanse of sea the size of Mexico and military superiority over neighbors with competing claims to the waters. That, some say, could prompt a regional arms race and increase the risk of conflict.
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While officials in Washington say China is nowhere near gaining the capacity to keep American forces out of the South China Sea, analysts say the buildup will make it more difficult for the United States Navy to quickly defend allies with weaker militaries, like the Philippines. The deployment of fighter jets, antiship missiles and more powerful radar in particular could embolden the Chinese Navy while giving American commanders pause, they said.
Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee last month, Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr., commander of the United States Pacific Command, warned that China’s actions were “changing the operational landscape in the South China Sea.” And in written answers submitted to the committee, the Obama administration’s top intelligence official, James R. Clapper, forecast that China would “have significant capacity to quickly project substantial military power to the region” by early next year.
Though China has not finished construction, he wrote, it can already deploy fighter aircraft, surface-to-air missiles, coastal defense cruise missiles as well as large warships and sizable Coast Guard vessels to the new artificial islands in the Spratlys.
Mr. Clapper also confirmed that military radar had been installed more than 600 miles from the Chinese island province of Hainan on Cuarteron Reef, the southernmost of the seven artificial islets. In theory, that could improve the ability of China’s so-called carrier-killer missile, the DF-21D, to strike faraway targets and complicate United States Navy efforts to develop countermeasures against it.
Last month, Vietnam lodged a formal protest after satellite photos indicated that China had deployed on the largest island in the Paracels, Woody Island. Vietnam claims both the Paracels and the Spratlys, and has been running high since of a Chinese oil drilling platform near the Paracels led to two years ago.
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Blackstone
Brigadier
Current international norms allow surveillance and while one can argue "snooping" isn't a friendly act, UNCLOS doesn't require nations to be buddies. So I ask again, can you point to a clear US violation of UNCLOS law vis-a-vis China's islands/rocks/features in the SCS?
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
There is certain rule governing military passage in littoral water. Law is specific there is no such thing as customary.If you follow Napoleon code which is the basis of Most world law except the common law of Anglo Saxon country It is specific
Read the article 25 it is crystal clear to me
But some people may interpret it differently or use round around with so called civilian manned vessel. Therefore it can't be classified as military. It violate the intent of article 25 very clearly to me If surveillance is permitted why is the US use so called "civilian manned" surveillance ship?. This the reason why submarine if they pass thru the littoral water has to surface to show their peaceful intent
Read the article 25 of UNCLOS
UNCLOS provides for different maritime zones with varying substantive regimes. For instance, the coastal state has sovereignty over the territorial sea,19 which extends up to 12 nm from the baseline.20 Foreign warships must follow the conditions of Article 19 for ‘innocent passage’ if they are to navigate through the territorial seas of a coastal state.21 Article 25 permits the coastal state to protect itself and ‘take the necessary steps in its territorial sea to prevent passage which is not innocent.’22 On the other hand, all states equally enjoy the freedom of navigation and overflight in the high seas,23 an area beyond national jurisdiction.24 Situated between these two substantive regimes is the EEZ, which is arguably the most complicated of the maritime zones in terms of regulation and enforcement.25
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Blackstone
Brigadier
Some people this, other people that; Napolean this Anglo-Saxons that. In other words, you can't name a single case where US clearly violated UNCLOS law.
Where we could agree is UNCLOS isn't crystal clear, and member states have different views. So, until the ICJ rules differently on the matter, most nations go with the status quo.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
google cowpen and impeccable!
On 5 March 2009, the Impeccable was in the monitoring submarine activity when it was approached by a (PLAN) , which crossed its bow at a range of approximately 100 yards without first making contact. This was followed less than two hours later by a Chinese aircraft, conducting 11 flyovers of Impeccable at an altitude of 600 feet (180 m) and a range from 100–300 feet (30–90 m). The frigate then crossed Impeccable's bow again, this time at a range of approximately 400–500 yards.
On 7 March, a Chinese intelligence ship contacted the Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or "suffer the consequences."
One Chinese crewmen waves a Chinese flag, while another uses a grappling hook to try to snag Impeccable's towed sonar array.
On 8 March 2009, the Impeccable was 75 miles south of , China, when it was shadowed by five Chinese ships: a Bureau of Maritime Fisheries Patrol Vessel, a