then you lack the understanding of Chinese netizen's "disobedience"...of course they are only disobedient online, back in real life they are still chanting CCP slogans lol.
China's Internet Boom, Games, Addiction & other news
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
then you lack the understanding of Chinese netizen's "disobedience"...of course they are only disobedient online, back in real life they are still chanting CCP slogans lol.
pelosi was involved too, this is what i have been saying, the condition is right for the politicians to intervene for their own benefit. since google still has business in China i think it might actually be the one that doesnt want this thing to get all hyped up (at least some of the decision makers). but overall like i said its just bad precedents that should not have been opened in the first place. i dont know whether the CCP is right, but what google did was definitely wrong. if they wanna get out of a market, just go, dont be a sore loser. now that it is revealed the mail box belonged to tibetan separatists, i'd love to see how the Chinese public withdrawing their support.
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
Tibetan separatists? Really now.
More like Tibetan extremists or throwbacks. I am fully aware that the US government uses the FBI, CIA, and other branches of the government spies on US citizens and visitors: possible US terrorists, possible US religious extremists, possible US social extremists (the Black Panthers, white Christian independents, Martin Luther King's civil rights movement, John Lennon's celebrity status, Elvis Presley's rock-star image, etc.), and other possible criminals or threats (no matter how minor) to the US government.
Now Google is making a moral stand to tell China to stop spying on Tibetan extremists/throwbacks? Wow Google is one hypocritical pile of dung.
One of Google's founders says his Russian Jewish background justifies/explains his push to liberate China by means of expanding Google's powers. Meanwhile, this Jewish guy is not publicizing a massive corporate movement to stand up for Palestinian justice, which is being torn, burnt, sliced, battered, shot, poisoned, starved, oppressed and exploded by Jewish Israel which is tremendously aided by the US government and European governments. Google went from being a hypocritical pile of dung and into being a Pharisaical landfill and cesspool topped off with Jewish religion/Tibetan extremist crap.
Maybe this Jewish founder should focus his resources on exposing Jewish corruption in America's financial industry. Maybe this Jewish activist should expose child sex, prostitution, drugs, and financial corruption at synagogues around the world. Nope, he goes after the gentiles aka goyim. This guy is so moral!
Imagine if some Chinese business wanted to end all relations with synagogues or Jewish bankers until they cleaned up their act. The US corporate media, the US government, and the Jewish community would be screaming anti-Semitism or Hitler at the top of their lungs.
The whole US corporate media and US government is behind Google, too. I could see business and political plans within plans within plans here. Morality is the cover story, but there is much more than meets the eye (haha).
I just deleted Google from my bookmarks. Screw Google. Until Google acts like a respectable business again, I am sticking to Clusty, Baidu, Bing, and Mapquest.
Actually, I have read things, a while back, which say Sergei Brin plays up his 'Russianness'. Moreover, I'm not so sure there is much substance to 'persecution of jews' in this particular case. You know, just like Rebiya kadeer is filthy rich, a very large number of the Russian oligarchs are Jewish.
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
Here is a goyim who is fluent in Hebrew and who has thoroughly studied the Talmud: .
If Chinese Americans or the Chinese government wrote something as hateful, bigoted, and superstitious as the Talmud and promoted something as vile as the Talmud, then Chinese Americans and the Chinese government would be attacked all over the world.
Look at the crap Native Americans faced throughout history. Millions of Native Americans were slaughtered by European colonialists. Now, Native Americans are a minority within a minority in their own land. Native Americans don't even whine about hate crimes 1% as much as Jews. MANY Jews are Caucasians who converted to Judaism during ancient to medieval to modern times. Many Jews are part Caucasian part Middle Eastern, or just Middle Eastern. A tiny fraction of Jews are black, Asian, and Native American.
A wealthy, white person who lived a privileged lifestyle and who constantly complains about anti-Semitism or racism or unfair persecution is a con-artist. This con-artist has NOT struggled against injustice nowhere near as much as the average Native American, a typical Chinese American, a common Italian American, the average African American, a poor or middle class white person, a typical Chinese in mainland China, the vast majority of Palestinians, etc.
I grew up poor and my distant ancestors escaped from Communist fanaticism by moving to Taiwan, then the USA. I WISH I could get the US government and US corporate media to back me up while I demand the corrupt Federal Reserve to obey my commands or else they will be charged with anti-Chinese Americanism.
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RedMercury
Junior Member
Why Google Is Quitting China
Rebecca Fannin, 01.15.10, 04:40 PM EST
It's not censorship. The search giant just couldn't compete with Baidu.
It's easy to give up if you've already lost the battle. And Google is doing just that in China. Eric Schmidt's move to quit offering a censored Google.cn search engine to the Chinese market has been read by idealists as the right thing to do. But it is first a business decision.
Even though Google's ( GOOG - news - people ) market share climbed from 15% in mid-2006 to 31% today, the company had hoped for a bigger share by now. Kai-Fu Lee, Google China's former president, told me in 2006 that Google not only wanted to have a competitive product to Baidu's, the local search leader, but a superior product. This didn't happen: Baidu has only increased its market share, going from 47% in mid-2006 to 64% today. That's a big lead.
Baidu, started by China-born entrepreneur Robin Li in late 1999 just as Larry Page and Sergey Brin were cranking up Google in Silicon Valley, understands the local Chinese market better than Google's Mountain View team.
Google fumbled with an initially inferior Chinese search engine launched in 2000, while Baidu grabbed the lead in China--and kept it--with several innovative search features customized for local tastes. Baidu introduced community-oriented services that appealed to Chinese Internet users, including bulletin boards where leads on information could be exchanged--a service that Google China's former president Kai-Fu Lee dismissed as having nothing to do with search. Baidu also offered instant messaging, a hit with China's Netizens.
Plus, Baidu was first to the market with mobile search and information offered up in multimedia, including video clips. Baidu also set up a national network of advertising resellers in 200 Chinese cities to educate businesses about the power of online advertising--a step that Google did not take.
Baidu's search feature for music also proved highly popular. Google, realizing the potentially illegal nature of the free music downloads, opted to provide links to music stores instead. Baidu later began collaborating with music labels on authorized downloads.
One other key factor put Baidu in the lead: Its search technology was considered superior to Google's in the Mandarin language. Scrambling to catch up, in 2005 Google hired the experienced Lee as its president from Microsoft ( MSFT - news - people ). Then in 2006 Google launched its first Chinese-language search engine run from China, Google.cn. With Lee at the helm, Google recruited dozens of top engineers and linguists to its Beijing headquarters to perfect search results on Google.cn. Working at the towering headquarters of Google China at Zhongguancun Software Park in northeastern Beijing, some 100 engineers wrote codes to deal with inputting Pinyin or Roman letters to signify Mandarin sounds and such intricate tasks as delineating words in Chinese characteristics that don't clearly define white spaces.
The efforts paid off with speedier and more precise search results as well as more reliable service. But no matter the global brand name, the maximized effort and the financial resources, Google's Chinese search engine couldn't trump Baidu.
Perhaps Google should have turned over its business to local rival Baidu and let Baidu run with it. There is a precedent. Back in 2005 Jerry Yang turned over the management reins for Yahoo! ( YHOO - news - people ) in China to Jack Ma, the charismatic leader of China's e-commerce powerhouse Alibaba. Yang knew that Ma, thinking local, acting local, would have a better shot at getting the right formula for China.
Granted this is still a work in progress as Yahoo! refines its features for the Chinese market. But as Zeng Ming, former president of Yahoo! China, told me, "The net is about culture. You can't have expats running it."
Indeed, why give up now--unless you realize there's no way you're ever going to win the race. After all, Page and Brin had already crossed the line back in 2006 by agreeing to have their new Google.cn, run from China, subject to censorship. They didn't have much choice. All companies doing business in China follow the same Chinese government rules. Yes, Baidu's search results are also censored.
It wasn't all that long ago--2004--that it looked like Google might use Baidu as its entry route. Google invested $5 million in Baidu for a 2.6% stake but shifted strategy in mid-2006 by selling those shares for more than $60 million and rolling out Google.cn the same year. In hindsight, and given its bumpy history in China and this latest jockeying with the Chinese government, maybe Google should have pursued the go-with-Baidu strategy.
If Google exits the $300 million Chinese search market now, it's giving Baidu runway to be a monopoly. And if that happens, Baidu has a shot at becoming the world's dominant search company (it's already entered Japan) by sheer arithmetic alone.
By serving China's nearly 300 million Internet users and 670 million mobile phone users--both the world's largest markets--Baidu may someday be bigger than Google globally, something Robin Li once told me he has no doubts will happen
Not being able to compete with Baidu? Last few months showed Google kicking.
Google's share actually reached a high as 46% of the Chinese market as of last December. On mobile search as in doing searches from wireless, Google's share is about equal as Baidu.
Seems like any Chinese activist can be labeled as a Tibetan extremist or activist. Its still not the point. The attacks targeted gmail. That goes right to the very heart of the company---trust. When you established a mail account with Microsoft, Google, Yahoo or your ISP provider, there is a bond of trust, confidentiality and privacy with those mail accounts. Having them broken into could seriously damage that trust.
Google used their own hackers to track down the servers involved in the hacks. At least 20 companies were hacked, including Cisco. The gmail attacks may have been coverup, and that the attacks were not really after Chinese activists or Tibetan extremists but to obtain code on key technologies. iDefense, Symantec, McAfee, and Juniper now involved in the investigation. The attacks proved to be very sophisticated, pointing to a state sponsored operation, or (perhaps in the West, people don't know the magnitude and skill of the hacker cults in China). Obama adminstration hesitant at first due to the lack of concrete evidence, but now appears it has enough to send a formal protest.
Chinese government seems very calm on the issue, giving a strong statement but one to offer leeway.
As of now, Google is still offering censored searches in China, and the Chinese government has not blocked Google.cn. They might be talking of a compromise. I can see a few ways if that will happen.
Even if Google leaves, they would only take the web part away. GMail, mobile services, probably including mobile search, and Android would remain.
Most experienced Chinese web users already know how to use VPN to go through the Great Firewall, to access Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Wikipedia, thus only inexperienced users are subject to the GFW. They can always use VPN to access the global Google.
Censorship does affect the quality of search. Key issue is credibility. Do you have any idea that people don't really to listen to one sided information all the time? There is a reason why Beidu was actually losing market share in China in the last few months.
The real issue is the Great Firewall. You think the GFW is benefiting China and the Chinese Internet user? By turning the Chinese web you are creating an intranet and cutting yourself off to the rest of the world. With isolationism, you start your own path of stagnation, kind of like the way Japanese Shogun cut Japan off from the rest of the world. Think of what happened to Japan's mobile industry once they created their own national intranets---they became irrelevant to the rest of the world.
The problem of GFW is that it cuts off Chinese expression to the rest of the world. Chinese people themselves cannot defend or correct and express their viewpoints to the world as well.
Even if Baidu goes international, how much market will gain? Issue with a search engine is about credibility. Censorship, GFW, cybersecurity, all these are stains affecting Chinese tech companies like Shanda, Beidu, Alibaba, Huawei and ZTE as they try to export their wares, services, and technologies. What Chinese ministries are doing is every bit hurting them as well. I like the fact that Alibaba is planning to make a webpage for American small and medium businesses, which can greatly help these sectors of the American economy.
I mean, what's the point of censuring Facebook, Twitter, IMDB, etc,. The Russians are running a defacto authoritarian government too, and they're not blocking Facebook, heck they're made some big investments on it.
Open, peer to peer exchange of information is vital to the Internet. Even this boosts personal productivity and GDP. There are two forces in China running headlong against each other; the outflow of information brought about by technology changes and creation, often by China's own technological industries, and those who want to police and control this outflow, inevitably to the long term detriment of those industries.
Point is, the policing has reached ridiculous proportions in China. You got a bureaucracy out of control. Even SMS messages are being monitored.
Google's share actually reached a high as 46% of the Chinese market as of last December. On mobile search as in doing searches from wireless, Google's share is about equal as Baidu.
Seems like any Chinese activist can be labeled as a Tibetan extremist or activist. Its still not the point. The attacks targeted gmail. That goes right to the very heart of the company---trust. When you established a mail account with Microsoft, Google, Yahoo or your ISP provider, there is a bond of trust, confidentiality and privacy with those mail accounts. Having them broken into could seriously damage that trust.
Google used their own hackers to track down the servers involved in the hacks. At least 20 companies were hacked, including Cisco. The gmail attacks may have been coverup, and that the attacks were not really after Chinese activists or Tibetan extremists but to obtain code on key technologies. iDefense, Symantec, McAfee, and Juniper now involved in the investigation. The attacks proved to be very sophisticated, pointing to a state sponsored operation, or (perhaps in the West, people don't know the magnitude and skill of the hacker cults in China). Obama adminstration hesitant at first due to the lack of concrete evidence, but now appears it has enough to send a formal protest.
Chinese government seems very calm on the issue, giving a strong statement but one to offer leeway.
As of now, Google is still offering censored searches in China, and the Chinese government has not blocked Google.cn. They might be talking of a compromise. I can see a few ways if that will happen.
Even if Google leaves, they would only take the web part away. GMail, mobile services, probably including mobile search, and Android would remain.
Most experienced Chinese web users already know how to use VPN to go through the Great Firewall, to access Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Wikipedia, thus only inexperienced users are subject to the GFW. They can always use VPN to access the global Google.
Censorship does affect the quality of search. Key issue is credibility. Do you have any idea that people don't really to listen to one sided information all the time? There is a reason why Beidu was actually losing market share in China in the last few months.
The real issue is the Great Firewall. You think the GFW is benefiting China and the Chinese Internet user? By turning the Chinese web you are creating an intranet and cutting yourself off to the rest of the world. With isolationism, you start your own path of stagnation, kind of like the way Japanese Shogun cut Japan off from the rest of the world. Think of what happened to Japan's mobile industry once they created their own national intranets---they became irrelevant to the rest of the world.
The problem of GFW is that it cuts off Chinese expression to the rest of the world. Chinese people themselves cannot defend or correct and express their viewpoints to the world as well.
Even if Baidu goes international, how much market will gain? Issue with a search engine is about credibility. Censorship, GFW, cybersecurity, all these are stains affecting Chinese tech companies like Shanda, Beidu, Alibaba, Huawei and ZTE as they try to export their wares, services, and technologies. What Chinese ministries are doing is every bit hurting them as well. I like the fact that Alibaba is planning to make a webpage for American small and medium businesses, which can greatly help these sectors of the American economy.
I mean, what's the point of censuring Facebook, Twitter, IMDB, etc,. The Russians are running a defacto authoritarian government too, and they're not blocking Facebook, heck they're made some big investments on it.
Open, peer to peer exchange of information is vital to the Internet. Even this boosts personal productivity and GDP. There are two forces in China running headlong against each other; the outflow of information brought about by technology changes and creation, often by China's own technological industries, and those who want to police and control this outflow, inevitably to the long term detriment of those industries.
Point is, the policing has reached ridiculous proportions in China. You got a bureaucracy out of control. Even SMS messages are being monitored.
And so why does an overseas Chinese like you have to express for China then?
Why can't mainland Chinese express themselves?
Why?
Because of Great Firewall.
By the way, Inframan, get some web analytics. You can find figures about Google's market share.
I'm sorry, but pointing out how dirty Hollywood or the US government is doesn't make your point.
The point is, you're able to express corruption in Hollywood or the US government because you are living in a social environment and Internet that lets you do so. You still don't understand the whole concept of having civil liberties and rights intended to protect the individual from the government and to keep the government at check. Your entire blog is made possible---without any government repercussion---because you are in a social environment that protects your rights of expression.
Do you honestly think you can make and say the same things about corporate and government corruption in China without fearing of your social status and the Chinese government creating a watch file on you?
Oh yeah, I see many disturbing and ominous things happening this side of the world too, in the US, Europe and so on. Yeah, in the US too, which is why we keep vigilance of dangers to these liberties from threats within. But pointing this out in the US, does not clear China of the same mistake. Its like a kid saying, "hey he did this, I should be doing it too." That's a stupid line of argument.
The vibrant forum communities that talks of Chinese defense, what makes you think that's a status that can remain forever, guaranteed. With a single law, they can all be shut down. What's possible before, doesn't mean it would be possible in the future. After seeing a trend in Internet liberalization, we are now seeing a trend of increasing Internet censorship and closedness. That's the danger. The danger is that it appears its China's turn, turning to Bush-Cheney like policies. Whatever good international will China built up in the decade, is now being threatened by hard line approaches.
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
My freedom comes from myself and others demanding freedom and Constitutional rights. I owe ZERO allegiance to corporations and governments.
Comparing Russia to China? Overall, Russia is in worse condition than China right now. The only thing saving Russia from free fall is its huge arsenal of nukes, oil reserves, and gas reserves. If Russia lacked these 3 things, Russia would be in even worse shape than today (possibly broken into multiple states and consumed by other nations).
Why are you so loyal to Google, Hollywood corporate monopolies, and governments? Google claims it has the moral advantage, when it doesn't. Google is using hypocrisy to expand market share. Hollywood corporations censor lots of information and tightly control everything they get their hands on. If the Democrat Party or Republican Party were not held back by American citizens and the US Constitution, both parties would have turned America into a oppressive nation by now.
The US government commits lots of spying and problems around the world. Hell, the US government won't even show the full extent of alleged war crimes related to the war on terror, because it claims the full truth and nothing but the truth would damage their image. Hmm, sounds like the Chinese government.
The US government and corporations, especially banking corporations, tightly regulate American society so that they have the vast majority of the monetary wealth. Hmm, sounds like the Chinese government and Chinese corporations.
If the Chinese people want liberation, they have to get it themselves. If they seek liberation from foreign corporations and foreign governments, they will be sorely disappointed. Out of the boiling pot and into the frying pan.
I know Chinese people working to improve China's condition, and these people are not two-faced corporations and governments like Google. These Chinese people are the true heroes of Chinese advancement, not Google or the Obama Administration (barf).
By the way, the Obama Administration has continued many of Bush's policies on domestic spying, international spying, offensive wars, giving preferential treatment to corporations and special interest groups, protecting banking corporations from justice, etc. Even Obama's poll numbers have been declining at a fast rate. He can take back his change. Yes we can (be swindled by another political machine). Hope to Nope.
Anyone who worships corporations and governments should study what corporations and governments did to people desperate for hope in Haiti, Mexico, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Brazil, Africa, Indonesia, and so on. They have been suffering for putting too much hope and power in the hands of corporations and governments, especially foreign entities.
Egomaniacs and their lackeys are dangers to everyone's freedom, rights, and progress. Self-empowered people are the foundation of freedom, rights, and progress, not two-faced corporations and governments. Everything else comes second.
Comparing Russia to China? Overall, Russia is in worse condition than China right now. The only thing saving Russia from free fall is its huge arsenal of nukes, oil reserves, and gas reserves. If Russia lacked these 3 things, Russia would be in even worse shape than today (possibly broken into multiple states and consumed by other nations).
Why are you so loyal to Google, Hollywood corporate monopolies, and governments? Google claims it has the moral advantage, when it doesn't. Google is using hypocrisy to expand market share. Hollywood corporations censor lots of information and tightly control everything they get their hands on. If the Democrat Party or Republican Party were not held back by American citizens and the US Constitution, both parties would have turned America into a oppressive nation by now.
The US government commits lots of spying and problems around the world. Hell, the US government won't even show the full extent of alleged war crimes related to the war on terror, because it claims the full truth and nothing but the truth would damage their image. Hmm, sounds like the Chinese government.
The US government and corporations, especially banking corporations, tightly regulate American society so that they have the vast majority of the monetary wealth. Hmm, sounds like the Chinese government and Chinese corporations.
If the Chinese people want liberation, they have to get it themselves. If they seek liberation from foreign corporations and foreign governments, they will be sorely disappointed. Out of the boiling pot and into the frying pan.
I know Chinese people working to improve China's condition, and these people are not two-faced corporations and governments like Google. These Chinese people are the true heroes of Chinese advancement, not Google or the Obama Administration (barf).
By the way, the Obama Administration has continued many of Bush's policies on domestic spying, international spying, offensive wars, giving preferential treatment to corporations and special interest groups, protecting banking corporations from justice, etc. Even Obama's poll numbers have been declining at a fast rate. He can take back his change. Yes we can (be swindled by another political machine). Hope to Nope.
Anyone who worships corporations and governments should study what corporations and governments did to people desperate for hope in Haiti, Mexico, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Brazil, Africa, Indonesia, and so on. They have been suffering for putting too much hope and power in the hands of corporations and governments, especially foreign entities.
Egomaniacs and their lackeys are dangers to everyone's freedom, rights, and progress. Self-empowered people are the foundation of freedom, rights, and progress, not two-faced corporations and governments. Everything else comes second.
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