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China's Greatest Fear: Dead and Buried Like the Soviet Union (Closed)
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Equation
Lieutenant General
I'll attempt to kinda summarize what I think is going on here:
(by the way I go to bed now
- Iron Man tries to open the question of Tibet independence
- solarz and Equation don't want to hear about Tibet independence
Or rather we heard too much about Tibet independence from separatist outside of China's sovereign territory. They make it seem like it's a dire situation if they are not able to continue to practice their certain kind of Tibetan serfdom in order to maintain that oppressive practice, which my arguments to meaning it's not true. It's the exaggeration and spin by those independent seekers trying to carve a piece of their own kingdom out from someone else's back yard.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I'll attempt to kinda summarize what I think is going on here:
(by the way I go to bed now
- Iron Man tries to open the question of Tibet independence
- solarz and Equation don't want to hear about Tibet independence
Yes all of the sudden the self-anointed rule enforcer in here is okay with a forbidden subject being talked about...
broadsword
Brigadier
His disingenuousness is for all to see.
Jura The idiot
General
oh many countries claimed to "historically own" various territories; one example:
Hungarians only one hundred years ago possessed
spanning down to
deep into now-Romania:
Hungarians lost those eastern regions in 1918, only to take some of them back from Romania in 1940:
(now both countries are EU members so the point is moot
Equation
Lieutenant General
oh many countries claimed to "historically own" various territories; one example:
Hungarians only one hundred years ago possessed
spanning down to
deep into now-Romania:
Hungarians lost those eastern regions in 1918, only to take some of them back from Romania in 1940:
(now both countries are EU members so the point is moot
Territorial lines never stay the same forever.
As for the Tibetan separatist movement, did any Hungarians ever claim that they have to have someone else's piece of land in order to exist? That's my main point in all of this argument.
You do realize that there is no direct lineage between the Ming who rose up against the Qing and the Sung before the Qing? every man who considered himself a subject of Sung is long dead before the Ming rises. There are cultural differences, like the difference of costumes which Ming followed Zhao wear, and Sung followed Tang wear.
The thing is China is a cultural identity, it is like being Roman. The Holy Roman Empire thought of themselves as the heir of Rome, Constantinople and the Byzantine empire thought itself as the second Rome, Imperial Russia thought itself as the third Rome. But none of them have any direct relationship to Rome.
Similarly, China (Qin), Han, Tang, it is a cultural identity that people ascribe to. do we have any real connection to them? many of us will want to believe so, but most of us won\t be able to produce any proof.
Likewise, PRC and ROC is not founded on the basis of expelling the Qing, it is a continuation, the imperial household was given an allowance to live out their life as the British royalty do today and that promise is honored by the PRC till the death of Puiyi. You will also notice that the original flag of the ROC and the pin that the soldiers wore were five colored to represent the five major ethnicity of China, with black representing Tibetans. and the Japanese appropriated this flag to denote Japanese as one of the Chinese races for legitimacy .
Yes, many people call those men traitors, but so what? the point is they did switch side with the tide and one is Manchurian and another is Mongolian, but they are still considered Chinese traitors none the less. Thus it should dispel your believes that being Chinese excludes other ethnicity. So how is this double standard? Tibetans, Mongolians, Hui, Manchurians etc. were held in the same regards as being Chinese by the Chinese people
You didn't know that there were major suicides at the fall of each dynasty with the Sung being the worst? I do not have a book with me, but the lost in technology, economy and industry at the end of the Sung dynasty was not recovered even in the Ming dynasty as a lot of the artisans and scholars took their own life at the end of the Sung dynasty.
Jura The idiot
General
at one point Hungarians worked hard on retaking their/"their" pre-WWOne lands (EDIT I of course mean "those from https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ch...ke-the-soviet-union.t7964/page-16#post-431281" as hypothetically they might've claimed
LOL Vienna and the area somewhere up to the current German border):
and trying to directly answer your question, I'm guessing fear phrases had been frequently used by their leaders at that time
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I think, Mandarin is not a Han construct, it should be originally a Yuan construct. I think Kublai Khan ordered its creation by Drogön Chögyal Phagpa to unify the script of the Mongol empire based on the 'Phags-pa script which was based on the Tibetan script. The Phonetics of Mandarin does contain elements from the Rime tables of the Song dynasty and some integration of Mongolian, khitan and other terms.
Cantonese, originally desired by Sun Yat Sen to be the dialect of the ROC (as he is from Guangzhou, but Mao was from Hunan where Mandarin was spoken), is actually more phonetically similar to the Tang/Sung Chinese language. That is why Tang poetry sounds more natural when read in Cantonese.
It also lead to an other tibit of histroy. Yuan Chonghuan (袁崇焕) a Ming general from the Guangzhou area, his battle cry against the Manchus is 掉哪媽！頂硬上！ which means "fuck his mother! forward advance!" Ofcourse, the Manchu governors spoke Mandarin and Yuan Chonghuan and his troops spoke Cantonese. Now this slogan became popular culture in that it resists the mandarin take over of the many Cantonese regions.
solarz
Brigadier
I think this is a bit of a myth. Chinese has always consisted of a bewildering array of local dialects. Mandarin is an artificial construct designed to bridge this gap. Before the PRC started pushing everyone to speak mandarin, most people only spoke their local dialect. Even today, in many parts of China, a lot of people can't speak mandarin. So it's a pretty extraordinary claim to say that ancient Chinese sounds like any one particular dialect.
Also, I have a hard time believing that Yuan's troops spoke Cantonese. Yuan fought against the Manchu in the north, he would have had to recruit his troops locally.
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