China's Education system compared to the USA

vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
plawolf said:
I think that while it is true that there does appear to be a lack of creativity and original thinking in those who have gone through the education system in China, it is to a much less degree than what you seem to think, and I also disagree about the cause.

I have to agree with Solarz here Vesicles, a lot of the time, those Chinese researchers are not asking because they do not know what to do next, but they are asking to get re-affirmation from their superiors that what they are doing is what is desired. It is partly a lack of confidence, as I observed before, but also part cultural, as they do not want to appear to be a hothead upstart who does not care about the views and ideas of their superiors/elders. There might also be some bad habits from passing exams mixed in, as school children who ask the most questions most often tend to do better at exams than the more independent sort who prefer to go it alone and come up with their own ideas and solutions.

This effect is amplified in the Chinese, extreme pressure, huge classroom style of teaching. The students are under so much pressure that the most time efficient method of studying is to just take what the teacher tells you as the absolute truth and learn that instead of questioning it, challenging it and figuring out why that is the case, because the student simply have too much workload to spare too much time on such 'idle' thinking, and the teachers tend to have too many students to teach to properly explain things even if a student did ask such questions.
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I think you are talking about the cause for this lack of creativity, be it fear of offending superiors, lack of confidence, too much pressure. At the end of the day, it is still shown as lack of creativity.

plawolf said:
High school in China should be reformed to follow the western approach, whereby the students are taught and encouraged to think critically and creatively and independently to make the transition to university life much less extreme, and also to given them more confidence to think critically and creatively as well as to seize the initiative.

However, the sad reality of the fact is that sweeping educational reform in China is very unlikely because of the amazing results attained. China ranked first in all fields in the most recent Programme for International Students Assessment (PISA) rankings.

Would anyone consider sweeping changes to a system that seem to work so 'well' at present? Especially since the changes I have in mind will probably be pretty expensive to implement, and may well actually local China's scores and rankings, if only initially.
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Agreed. Another factor is population. Way too many students and not enough universities. As pressure of getting into colleges mounts, it is inevitable that some people will begin to focus exclusively on tests since it is always the tests that is the most important and hardcore criteria. Once someone starts doing it, everyone will have no choice but to follow suit.

plawolf said:
All too many Chinese parents are sadly falling into the misconception that western universities are somehow better at fostering creativity and gives a better education and spend exorbitant amounts of money to send their children abroad so that they might receive this 'superior' education.

However, IMHO, it is high school that makes the critical difference, and western universities do not differ all that much in the way they run their programmes as Chinese universities. If anything, sending the child alone and to a completely foreign culture with only mediocre english language skills tend to exaggerate the already large difference between high school education in China and university life, and amplify the already well noted tendency for oriental students to be shy and passive, and thus can be far more harmful for the child's healthy development and education than if they had just gone to university in China.

I think if children are to travel abroad for a western education, they should either go early, at high school and stay till university, or they should go later, for a masters or PHD, MBA, when they have had time to adapt to the massive change in educational style in a much more familiar cultural and language environment.
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Agreed. Most of the Western universities are mostly hands-off. Once you are in college, you are on your own. No one will tell you when to study, when to go to bed, when to go to class, etc. In my first semester in college, I missed about 90% of my 8 o'clock classes because I couldn't get up that early after partying all night. All in all, it's not a good place to form good habit if you don't already have one. On the other hand, it is a place for acquiring all sorts of bad habits. With all the partying, girls, drugs, alcohol, etc., it becomes so easy to get lost.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
plawolf said:
That is a bit rich. HuJinTao came from a very poor family and was in fact an adopted orphan.

When was the last time anyone with such humble beginnings became even a senator or congressman in the US, let alone president?

Political office is only an aspiration the rich can dream of in the west. For all its flaws, China's system is far more inclusive.
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I think what happens in China's political system nowadays is unique only in China. This is because CCP favors those with poor family background. When Hu was a youngster, most people in the elite wealthy families had been persecuted by the CCP as the enemy of the people. Most of them could not even join the military as none of them was trusted and was viewed as enemies. I can hardly believe that any of them could become officials
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
vesicles said:
No, I'm saying American society encourages people like Obama to pursue his goals/dreams while Chinese society doesn't.
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That begs the question: are you saying Obama is creative because he pursued the US presidency? To me, that isn't so much a matter of creativity as a matter of dedication and perseverance.

Creativity is more about "creating" something new, whether that's a piece of art or a new mathematical model, or even a new way of making money.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
solarz said:
That begs the question: are you saying Obama is creative because he pursued the US presidency? To me, that isn't so much a matter of creativity as a matter of dedication and perseverance.

Creativity is more about "creating" something new, whether that's a piece of art or a new mathematical model, or even a new way of making money.
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Well, you brought up Obama and I was simply responding to your comments.

BTW, I think being creative is more than just coming up with new things. It means thinking of things in a different way away from the norm. In that sense, Obama would be considered creative if he can think of a unique way of solving the medicare/social security issues. or Obama, when he was little, believed that, as an African American, he actually had a chance of becoming a president. that kind of thought would be creative.

And dedication and perseverance only come after someone comes up with a creative idea and tries to put this idea into action.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Talking about seeing things in a different manner, Ive always wondered about the different approch to painting, practiced by Western painters and their Asian counterparts.

While Western painters made the jump from to 2D to a 3dimensional world from the Renaissance Period, Asian art kept to the 2D format. Can anyone offer any cultural explanation as to why this was so.
 
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no_name

Colonel
Does this look 2D to you?:

v5ftzq.jpg



You can find more example here:
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K

kyanges

Junior Member
If we're interpreting the art thing through a cultural lens, here's an amusing thought exercise. So obviously Western art and East Asian art had their own approaches to the same problem of representing 3 dimensions on a 2D paper.

One went for the linear perspective, while in the latter, perspective is either explicitly avoided, or when practical representation is required, the isometric view is more prevalent. One is about representing only what the eye normally sees, as accurately as possible, in a strict and rigid rectangular window and from a fixed vantage point. The other is no less focused on precision or accuracy, but at the same time, it tries to shift things into a view that the eye doesn't normally see, with all perspectives scaled equally.

What does that say about their respective world views?
 
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Red___Sword

Junior Member
kyanges said:
If we're interpreting the art thing through a cultural lens, here's an amusing thought exercise. So obviously Western art and East Asian art had their own approaches to the same problem or representing 3 dimensions on a 2D paper.

One went for the linear perspective, while in the latter, perspective is either explicitly avoided, or when practical representation is required, the isometric view is more prevalent. One is about representing only what the eye normally sees, as accurately as possible, in a strict and rigid rectangular window and from a fixed vantage point. The other is no less focused on precision or accuracy, but at the same time, it tries to shift things into a view that the eye doesn't normally see, with all perspectives scaled equally.

What does that say about their respective world views?
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One missionary, One comprehenary. (rhyme?)
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
no_name said:
Does this look 2D to you?:

v5ftzq.jpg



]
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Yes it does, actually they all do. Kyanges gives the reasons to which Ill add to.

Some of the pictures have no or a flat background eg the flowers and that tree thingy

The figures appear to be floating

No Cast shadow

Some of the background buildings and figures are the samesize as the foreground figures

Lack of Vanishing point or a Horizon line in other words they lack Alberti's sense of perspective
(Alberti was regarded as the originator of perspective drawing in European art)

As Kayanges said the subject is the essence rather than what the eye really sees and perhaps this still applies in Asian thinking in the arts, general study?

Well what ever the reason is, it must have been pretty powerful for no pre European contact Asian in thousands oy years to thinkarggghhh to heck with it Im gonna paint what my eye really sees.

Just something slightly different

From what Ive seen in Asian paintings, the more important the figure in the painting /drawing the larger it is compared to the people around him/her. For instance in paintings of Mao in groups of people he appears sligtly larger, and compare that with paintings of say George Washington where there isn't really anything to make him standout from his fellow revolutionists.
 
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defaultuser1

Banned Idiot
plawolf said:
Political office is only an aspiration the rich can dream of in the west. For all its flaws, China's system is far more inclusive.
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I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on this site. I don't think there's a single country in the world with a political system that can be deemed inclusive and equal. The farther up the chain of command you go, the less inclusive it is and the more of a good old boys club it is. To reach the highest political offices, you have to know a guy and know many guys. Doesn't matter if it's China or the U.S.

bladerunner said:
While Western painters made the jump from to 2D to a 3dimensional world from the Renaissance Period, Asian art kept to the 2D format. Can anyone offer any cultural explanation as to why this was so.
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What? :confused:

This is good reading.
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