China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread

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luhai

Banned Idiot
S-400? Su-35? Lada?
They probably cost a couple billion or so you think? Probably just more hot air, I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Lion

Senior Member
S-400? Su-35? Lada?
They probably cost a couple billion or so you think? Probably just more hot air, I'll believe it when I see it.

The usual rumour.. Consider the progress China military has made. I doubt they will need S-400, Su-35 and Lada.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Thailand to negotiate purchase of 3 Chinese Type 054A class frigates

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Thailand to negotiate purchase of 3 Chinese Type 054A class frigates
Thailand is to negotiate a Chinese proposal of 3 Type 054A class frigates for the Royal Thai Navy, which has budgeted 30 billion Thai Baht or roughly $1 billion for 2 frigates.

The Thai government last year approved the purchase of 2 frigates after a previous attempt to purchase 6 used Type U-206 submarines from Germany was unsuccessful.

Instead of the 2 frigates budgeted, Thailand would receive 3 Type 054T frigates, build according to Thai specifications, and which could come with offsets for local component production and up to 6 Z-9C Anti-Submarine Warfare helicopters.

The Thai Navy already operates 4 Type 053 frigates, which were build by China for Thailand during the nineties and fitted with various western systems and weapons.

The Type 054A frigates are upgraded versions of the 2 earlier Type 054 frigates, which in the past have been reported to cost the Chinese Navy around $250 million each. So far, 16 Type 054A hulls have been either launched or commissioned with several more under contruction.

Each Combined Diesel And Diesel (CODAD) Type054A frigate has a length of 134 m, a beam of 16m, a maximum displacement of 4053 tons and is armed with:
one PJ26 76 mm dual-purpose gun
2 x 4 YJ-83 / C-802A anti-ship missiles
4 x 8 Vertical Launch System (VLS) able to fire HHQ-16 anti-air missiles or rocket-assisted anti-submarine torpedoes
two H/PJ12 7-barrel 30 mm Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) gatling guns
2 x 3 324 mm torpedoes
The Type 054A ships have also been designed with reduction of their Radar Cross Section in mind.

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Chinese navy makes waves in South China Sea
By Calum MacLeod - USA Today
Posted : Wednesday Mar 27, 2013 15:07:08 EDT
BEIJING — A Chinese navy flotilla is conducting military drills at an island chain that is claimed by nearby Malaysia in a rare and provocative visit to the southernmost part of the South China Sea.

The military show of force into the far reaches of the sea was seen by some experts as a signal from the new Chinese leadership installed this month under President Xi Jinping that it is going to enforce its claims to the entire South China Sea.

“It was a surprisingly strong message in sending out this task force on such a new operational role from previous PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy) patrols in the region,” Gary Li, a senior analyst with IHS Fairplay in London, told the Wednesday edition of the South China Morning Post.

“It is not just a few ships here and there, but a crack amphibious landing ship carrying marines and hovercraft and backed by some of the best escort ships in the PLAN fleet,” he said, adding that jet fighters had also been used to cover the task force.

“We’ve never seen anything like this that far south in terms of quantity or quality.”

The four-ship flotilla, including China’s most advanced amphibious landing ship, reached James Shoal on Tuesday. Sailors gathered on the ship’s helicopter deck declared their loyalty to the ruling Communist Party and vowed to “struggle arduously to realize the dream of a powerful nation,” Xinhua said.

James Shoal is a small bank 50 miles from the Malaysia coast, and 1,120 miles from China, south of the Spratly Islands. In 2010, China planted a monument on the shoal declaring it the Chinese territory of “Zengmu Reef.”

The act was part of China’s claims to all islands, fishing grounds and energy resources in 1 million square miles of ocean shared also by Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan. The South China Sea is also a major transit route for global shipping; half of all cargo in the world passes through the sea.

Malaysia says China’s claims are bogus and merely an attempt to seize resources such as possible oil and gas deposits that are well within the internationally recognized coastal territory of Malaysia.

Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, Northeast Asia director for the International Crisis Group, a non-profit working in conflict prevention, said the naval exercise is consistent with China’s “shift from a land-focused power to a maritime power.”

The strategy has been pushed over the past two years, during which China has grown more assertive over its maritime claims, she said.

The recent consolidation of maritime agencies is designed to make them “better focused, better equipped and more effective in defending China’s maritime claims,” Kleine-Ahlbrandt said.
No Comment.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
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By Terril Yue Jones

BEIJING (Reuters) - China's new leadership is seeking to dismantle a system of privilege which has allowed the drivers of military vehicles to do as they please on the roads.

On Sunday the Chinese military began replacing license plates on its cars and trucks to crack down on legions of vehicles, many of them plush luxury brands, which routinely break traffic laws and fill up with free gas.

The People's Liberation Army General Logistics Department began supervising the removal of current military license plates that will expire on Tuesday, the PLA Daily newspaper reported.

Luxury sedans and sport utility vehicles with PLA and People's Armed Police license plates gliding through red lights or flashing lights and sirens to push aside cars in front of them are a common sight in China.

Newly named President Xi Jinping, who is also chairman of the Central Military Commission and thus the top military official, has tried to make fighting corruption a cornerstone of his administration, saying he will go after corrupt officials high and low.

Luxury German, American and Japanese cars and SUVs with military plates -- often given to friends and family members as favors -- are one of many manifestations of corruption in China that regularly irk ordinary citizens.

Family members of retired military officers and who have military plates have even claimed free gasoline.

FIGHTING CORRUPTION

"Xi Jinping has a very strong sense of crisis," said Hu Xingdou, a professor of economics at Beijing Institute of Technology and an anti-corruption researcher.

"He has the lofty intention to use the iron fist of the state to fight corruption," Hu said in a telephone interview.

"Of course the fight against corruption is like a violent storm, and the more you persist in going after something by putting your career on the line, the more you encounter resistance," Hu said. "As for results, we will wait and see."

A number of high-end auto brands will be banned from receiving the new military license plates, including sedans from Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Ford's Lincoln, General Motors' Cadillac, Volkswagen-owned Bentley and the Volkswagen Phaeton, Xinhua said.

Absent from Xinhua's published list were Audi sedans, the clear preference among Chinese officials with access to government cars.

Audi A7 SUVs however were listed as off-limits, along with Porsche Cayennes and other unspecified SUVs. Range Rover and Lexus SUVs with such plates are also common in Beijing.

Private and local government vehicles will also be ineligible for the plates, as well as any car costing more than 450,000 yuan (about $73,000), Xinhua said.

The policy will further decrease sales of foreign brands into Chinese government fleets. Beijing has moved to bar certain government agencies from buying foreign cars at all, potentially excluding global auto brands from a market of between 70 billion and 80 billion yuan ($11.1 billion to $12.7 billion).

The new licensing system is also meant to weed out fake military plates by using embedded electronic technology, the state-run news agency Xinhua said.

"The move is meant to crack down on the creation, sale and use of counterfeit military vehicle plates and root out loopholes in military vehicle management, so as to maintain social harmony, stability and the reputation of the military," Xinhua quoted the PLA General Logistics Department as saying in a statement.

(Additional reporting by Beijing newsroom; Editing by Stephen Powell)

In case anyone is wondering there are no such privileges in the US for military members and their vehicles..private or military.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
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In case anyone is wondering there are no such privileges in the US for military members and their vehicles..private or military.

In case anyone is wondering, I understand this situation the most because the exact thing happens in Cambodia. Cambodian military and other government personnel buy cars without import duties (usually 100% of a car's price) and put on military or government license plates and drive freely on roads. No one dare to touch them. I hate that but as a normal citizen, there's nothing we can do. Guns are in their hands.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I dont mean to be little the issue, but I am reminded of a joke. This was told by Ronald Reagan to Margaret Thatcher in their last meeting.
one day The Russians impose a speed limit to try and keep down the price of road repair. well Russian president Gorbachev is late for a meeting and orders his driver to speed up the driver does not want to break the law so Gorbachev takes the wheel. they speed past two policemen the first cop gives chase and then returns. the second cop asks what happened. the first cop says "I caught up but he was to important." second cop then asks who it was. first cop answers "I dont know but must be big his driver was Gorbachev!"
I also remember reading in resent years of Russian minister being driven around in speeding black armoured BMWs with sirens causing havoc in Moscow traffic.
 

Franklin

Captain
The “Two Incompatibles” and PLA Self-Assessments of Military Capability

Recently, a Beijing-based defense attaché from a NATO country was reported saying, “Our assessment is they [the People’s Liberation Army] are nowhere near as effective as they think they are” (Foreign Policy, May/June 2013). Though the foreign officer did not provide further details, contrary to this attaché’s assertion, a large body of evidence in the official domestic Chinese military and Communist Party media suggests People’s Liberation Army (PLA) officers — ranging from the senior leadership to operational and tactical commanders as well as staff officers — do not judge the Chinese military to be anywhere near as effective as many foreigners do.

When speaking to foreigners, senior PLA leaders often say something like what Minister of Defense Liang Guanglie told U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates in January 2011, “The gap between us and that of advanced countries is at least two to three decades”. The senior leadership understands the PLA has made progress in many areas over the last 15 years, especially in some important, well-publicized capabilities, but internally they emphasize the need to educate and train PLA personnel to execute a new doctrine that they have never tested in combat.

Acknowledging the force’s shortfalls and focusing how to overcome these deficiencies reflect a professional approach to the task of military modernization. It also is the basis for the multi-decade timeline extending out to 2049 that the PLA has set for itself to complete the modernization process. At its most basic level, the recognition of shortcomings is consistent with Sun Tzu’s guidance to “Know the enemy and know yourself.”

The PLA Constantly Evaluates Its Capabilities and Shortfalls

Critical analysis of problems in PLA personnel quality, organization, training and logistics can be found in the writings and quotes from operational commanders and staff officers responsible for unit readiness published in Chinese military newspapers and journals. They are almost always in Chinese, directed at the PLA itself or Communist Party members. These evaluations are often buried in longer articles and usually follow the pattern of recognizing improvements that have been made, identifying shortcomings and recommending actions to overcome these problems. Many articles contain descriptions of units learning basic lessons that all militaries confront in training. Many articles, however, describe systemic problems that apply to more than just the individual unit involved and are published as lessons for others in the PLA. This type of analysis is not a new practice and can be traced back through decades of military reporting.

Significant problem areas are identified for all the services. The following sections provide a few examples across three categories from Chinese reports published since 2010. Often reports are couched in terms of “some units,” so it is difficult to assess exactly how widespread the problems are. The difficulties, however, must be common enough throughout the force to merit such public attention.

Personnel Quality

The goal of improving the quality of officers, noncommissioned officers, and conscripts has been at the top of the PLA agenda for many years, going back to Jiang Zemin’s guidance in the 1990s: “Though we’re unable to develop all high-technology weapons and equipment within a short period of time, we must train qualified personnel first, for we would rather let our qualified personnel wait for equipment than the other way round” (“Chinese Military Logistics: The GAD System Part II,” China Brief, October 14, 2004). Despite this emphasis, the PLA leadership still sees major shortcomings in the performance of many commanders, staff officers and troops in all services. A few examples of this type of evaluation include the following:

Then-President Hu Jintao said “The military is facing prominent difficulties in recruiting soldiers, retaining professionals…Therefore, we must find the solution to these problems by adjusting and reforming related policies and institutions” (Outlook, March 28, 2011);
A PLA Daily staff commentator article stated “We must be aware that the overall level of talented personnel in our army is not compatible with the requirements of fulfilling the historic mission in the new century, and the quality of information technology personnel is not compatible with the requirements for the development of combat effectiveness” (China Military Online, April 19, 2011);
Another PLA Daily article focused on the Navy noted “It must be understood that the incompatibility between the requirements to build naval personnel and to build an informatized navy and win informatized maritime wars remains a relatively obvious contradiction” (China Military Online, May 11, 2011);
Writing about the state of the PLA’s joint operations capabilities, Major General Chen Pinghua, political commissar of the 14th Group Army, said, “currently there is still a gap between the Party committee’s [unit commander, political commissar, and their deputies] tactical command capability and the requirements to win an informatized warfare in some troop units” (China Military Online, December 22, 2011 in Chinese and December 23 in English).

Old-Style Thinking

Closely related to the quality of personnel is the need for more innovation in thought and action. Much of the problem traces back to a reluctance to change old practices. Some units must be encouraged to “change their thinking” to actually use the new weapons and equipment issued them. Even recently there have been reports of soldiers who are afraid of using new equipment for fear of breaking or losing it, or because they have not been properly trained in its operation and maintenance (this situation is often referred to as “Lord Ye’s love of dragons,” Yègōng hàolóng).

A PLA Daily staff commentator article observed: “Some units have long been mired in the conventional mentality…These units handle issues arbitrarily and in accordance with their personal preferences, and they replace laws and regulations with governance, power, order and personal feelings…a small number of units still exhibit the phenomena of disobeying laws, orders and regulations” (China Military Online, June 7 and 8, 2010);
A year later another staff commentator article repeated, “The problem at present is that the phenomenon of failing to obey regulations and/or failing to enforce laws or rules rigidly still exists in some units in one form or another. Some people pay more attention to the rules of men than to the rule of law” (China Military Online, March 21, 2011);
Nanjing Military Region commander and political commissar Cai Yingting and Zheng Weiping told party leaders, “At present, due to the long peaceful environment, a small number of military personnel relax readiness in their thinking and mentality … Our forces are short of experience in fighting actual operations under informatized conditions, and there still exists a gap between their military capability and the requirement of winning in war” (Qiushi, March 1).

Training

Currently, the PLA is experimenting with its training system to implement a new doctrine that incorporates the new and old equipment in the force. Commanders and staff officers recognize problems in both the content and form of training. They seek to conduct realistic training so that their units will “train as you fight and fight as you train” (China Military Online, May 4, 2012). Some personnel, however, take “shortcuts,” like using unauthorized civilian radios or cell phones, which undermine realism and could jeopardize actual operations. Units are trying to find the best way to standardize, monitor and evaluate training and eliminate the problem of “fakery” in order to get good results.

Major General Xu Jingnian, commander of the 20th Group Army (a corps-level organization) said “The basic campaign corps face many problems carrying out joint training under current conditions” (China Military Online, January 21, 2010);
Major General Chen Zhaohai, director of the General Staff Department Military Training and Arms Department (now the Military Training Department) assessed: “Currently, the PLA’s military training under informatized conditions is still at the initial phase” (Xinhua, January 29, 2010);
A PLA Daily staff commentator summarized, “military training in our army is still generally mechanized. Traditional ideas and habitual practices have not been drastically changed…The level of training support is not sufficient for training under informatized conditions” (China Military Online, March 31, 2011);
Major General Zhou Xiaozhou, commander of the 14th Group Army, stated “Some units do not pay attention to training quality and efficiency, waste valuable resources, which affect the scientific upgrading of unit combat effectiveness” (China Military Online, July 24, 2011);
After acknowledging progress in military modernization, Lieutenant General Li Shaojun, deputy commander of the Beijing Military Region, reported to the National People’s Congress, “there is a gap between the overall combat effectiveness of the PLA and the requirements of fulfilling new historical missions” (China Military Online, March 13, 2012);
Rear Admiral Qiu Yanpeng, deputy commander of the East Sea Fleet, said, “No matter whether it is in comparison to the navies of other world powers or looking at the needs of the construction and development of the Chinese Navy, there is considerable room for improvement in terms of the strength and results of our distant sea training” (Xinhua, December 11, 2012).

The “Two Incompatibles”

Most of the examples above come from senior Army personnel in positions of operational authority and responsibility. Similar assessments are found in the Navy, Air Force, and Second Artillery newspapers. In addition to the areas mentioned above, organizational shortcomings have been a common theme over the past 15 years as the PLA has become smaller, but more technologically advanced. Operational and tactical headquarters have discovered they are not structured adequately to command and control joint and combined arms operations and have undergone significant structural and equipment changes. Likewise, the PLA leadership understands the requirement for its logistics system to keep pace with the changes in its combat systems. The problem of logistics support is complicated by the existence of multiple types of similar equipment in the force. For example, the Army has at least five types of main battle tanks (each with variants) and 12 types of helicopters in its inventory. Each different type of equipment brings with it different maintenance and supply requirements, increasing the complexity of the logistics effort.

The challenges the PLA faces in its modernization program have been clear to the senior leadership for many years. While they simplify their assessment for foreigners by speaking of a 20 to 30 year gap in capabilities, for their own internal consumption they speak of the “main contradiction” (zhuyao maodun) or the “two incompatibles” (liangge buxiang shiying). This evaluation of PLA (and People’s Armed Police) capabilities has been attributed to Hu Jintao and was first published on January 1, 2006 in a PLA Daily editorial. Though it has been translated in many ways, the statement usually follows these lines:

“The main contradiction in our army building is that the level of our modernization is incompatible with the demands of winning a local war under informatized conditions, and our military capabilities are incompatible with the demands of carrying out the army's historic missions in the new century and new stage.”

Nearly all senior PLA leaders have repeated the “two incompatibles” assessment in speeches or writing. It continues into the Xi Jinping era, found as recently as April 4 and 16, 2013 in PLA Daily. Like other assessments, it is usually buried deep in a Chinese-language article after acknowledging progress in some area has been made. Its purpose is to motivate the troops to continue the difficult task of military modernization. It also may be used within the government bureaucracy to justify continued increases to the defense budget. An accompanying explanation often bears these points out:

“After the CCP's 16th Party Congress, China's defense power has been substantially increased. Military Transformation with Chinese Characteristics has attained significant achievement, with revolutions in military affairs, modernization and regularization all working together in concept to strengthen the military on all fronts. At the same time, preparations for military conflict continue apace, with clear advancements in the ability of our nation's military to carry out the New Historical Missions. But we must see, although the ‘two incompatibles’ are an important contradiction affecting our military's construction, there remains a major disparity between not only our military's level of modernization and the needs of our national security, but with between ourselves and cutting edge military forces around the world. Speeding up the modernization of National Defense and the military and redoubling efforts to resolve the major contradiction while increasing our across-the-board ability to carry out missions and implementing the party's directive to strengthen the military has decisive significance” (PLA Daily, April 16).

In short, for the senior Chinese leadership, the “Two Incompatibles” are the measure of PLA modernization and a framework for evaluating China’s military capabilities. They understand that although the PLA has made great progress and looks much different from 15 years ago, there remains much work to be done to achieve across-the-board advanced military status. This self-awareness on the part of the PLA leadership suggests that many senior military officials may not be as “hawkish” as they are frequently portrayed. It is possible that their understanding of the many shortcomings in the PLA may embolden them to urge caution in the use of force when advising the senior Communist Party leadership in private. When ordered by the party, however, they will seek to accomplish the missions using all the forces and capabilities at their disposal. Moreover, the professionalism signaled in these self-assessments suggests the PLA may employ these capabilities in ways we do not expect. Discipline and necessity can be the parents of invention.

Some readers may be skeptical and assume this evaluation is part of a grand strategic deception plan (Sun Tzu said, “All warfare is based on deception”), but nearly all instances of the “Two Incompatibles” and most functional assessments are found in newspapers and journals directed at a Chinese audience. They have not been included in any of the externally-oriented defense white papers. More importantly, such evaluations reveal the practical problems a military will encounter as it moves from the book-learning phase to live training in the field. It is more likely that the “two incompatibles” assessment is related to Sun Tzu’s instruction to “Know the enemy and know yourself.” Successful execution of a deception plan or operations order is unlikely without accurate knowledge of both the enemy and your own capabilities … and weaknesses.

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no_name

Colonel
^^^ It'll be interesting if what the western observers say to the Chinese about their abilities is not what they actually think, and thus the assessments of the two groups are actually in agreement.
 
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