China's Anti-Access ASBM Strategy [Defense News]

Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
Hendrik_2000 said:
...
How good is China technology in this area ? Well if we use Shenzou docking maneuver with Tiangong I as yardstick, If my memory serve me right, they have the accuracy of 2 cm ...

It is the same high speed micro thruster control as DF 21D..
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Eh? o_O Shenzou and Tiangong are in space where there is no atmosphere and both are controlled by China. One is not trying to actively evade the other. An enemy carrier will be performing evasive maneuvers at 30+ knots while it and the cruisers and destroyers plus dedicated aircrafts will be deploying counter-measures. If the DF-21D warhead is hit-to-kill then flying at mach 7-10 gives it a very small window to correctly re-acquire the target (post-reentry) and maneuver towards the moving target. Even against fixed targets, the most accurate short-ranged ballistic missile have accuracy in the single digit (meters) and not centimeters. Again, if it is a proximity weapon where the DF-21D warhead detonates near the carrier disabling or at least delaying carrier operations that is different story. As I said before, you don't need to sink the carrier. Deck damage or catapults jammed is enough to prevent A/C from taking-off or landing. Thats a WIN.

Hendrik_2000 said:
...
People keep doubting the ability of DF 21 D to maneuver. But the world has plenty of mach 4 or mach 5 Missile that can hit ship at 300km distance with no problem like Brahmo, YJ 12, etc.
Ok they have short window of opportunity. But the processing speed of modern day computer is thousand time more powerful than 1980 tech and so do other sensor as well.

Not to mention that China has successfully launched 8 Hypersonic missile
...
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Still don't get it do you. Granit, Oniks, BrahMos, YJ-12 are NOT ballistic missiles. They are cruise missiles that can constantly get data from off-board sensors until they reach the target. There is no 30 sec reentry blind spot. Hypersonic cruise missiles are very different beasts. They can be sea-skimming while receiving constant updates from off-board sensors.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
SamuraiBlue said:
On board sensors? radar? IR? Both would be blinded by plasma.
Yeah, that would work.LoL
Click to expand...

Guess you never heard of ablative material ! Using controlled burn to cool off the shield.
Every missile reentry vehicle use it
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The
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heat shield functions by lifting the hot shock layer gas away from the heat shield's outer wall (creating a cooler
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). The boundary layer comes from blowing of gaseous reaction products from the heat shield material and provides protection against all forms of heat flux. The overall process of reducing the heat flux experienced by the heat shield's outer wall by way of a boundary layer is called blockage. Ablation occurs at two levels in an ablative TPS: the outer surface of the TPS material chars, melts, and
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, while the bulk of the TPS material undergoes
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and expels product gases. The gas produced by pyrolysis is what drives blowing and causes blockage of convective and catalytic heat flux.
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can be measured in real time using
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, so that the ablative performance can be evaluated.
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Ablation can also provide blockage against radiative heat flux by introducing carbon into the shock layer thus making it optically opaque. Radiative heat flux blockage was the primary thermal protection mechanism of the Galileo Probe TPS material (carbon phenolic). Carbon phenolic was
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Hyperwarp said:
Eh? o_O Shenzou and Tiangong are in space where there is no atmosphere and both are controlled by China. One is not trying to actively evade the other. An enemy carrier will be performing evasive maneuvers at 30+ knots while it and the cruisers and destroyers plus dedicated aircrafts will be deploying counter-measures. If the DF-21D warhead is hit-to-kill then flying at mach 7-10 gives it a very small window to correctly re-acquire the target (post-reentry) and maneuver towards the moving target. Even against fixed targets, the most accurate short-ranged ballistic missile have accuracy in the single digit (meters) and not centimeters. Again, if it is a proximity weapon where the DF-21D warhead detonates near the carrier disabling or at least delaying carrier operations that is different story. As I said before, you don't need to sink the carrier. Deck damage or catapults jammed is enough to prevent A/C from taking-off or landing. Thats a WIN.



Still don't get it do you. Granit, Oniks, BrahMos, YJ-12 are NOT ballistic missiles. They are cruise missiles that can constantly get data from off-board sensors until they reach the target. There is no 30 sec reentry blind spot. Hypersonic cruise missiles are very different beasts. They can be sea-skimming while receiving constant updates from off-board sensors.
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I am quite aware the difference between cruise missile and ballistic missile. But the difference is just speed and I said before Modern computer and sensor has the speed to overcome the short window of opportunity. It is you that need reading comprehension
Shenzhou move at 1500mile/hr and carrier move at 30 knot which one is faster and therfore more difficult to catch.
Ballistic missile is dumb bomb therefore cannot be compared to precision strike missile .The closest analog is Pershing missile

What blind spot are you talking?
We have been discussing if for pages Did you read it? China claim to have system to punch thru the blind spot. Using blunt body and ablative material of controlled burn that blind spot of Apollo era is thing of past
 
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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Hendrik_2000 said:
I am quite aware the difference between cruise missile and ballistic missile. But the difference is just speed and I said before Modern computer and sensor has the speed to overcome the short window of opportunity. It is you that need reading comprehension
Shenzhou move at 1500mile/hr and carrier move at 30 knot which one is faster and therfore more difficult to catch

What blind spot are you talking?
We have been discussing if for pages Did you read it? China claim to have system to punch thru the blind spot. Using blunt body and ablative material of controlled burn that blind spot of Apollo era is thing of past
Click to expand...

There is no atmosphere in space. So no wind, no turbulence, no air friction thermal heating.

It's also far easier for ground based radars and cameras to observe objects in orbit compared to something in orbit looking down at the earth, as there is no issue with radar clutter, never mind active jamming from a target.

What more, the speeds are you quoting are relative to a fixed point on earth. The relative speeds between the two docking spacecrafts are often slower than some people could run.

Achieving docking between spacecraft in orbit is very hard, but it uses very different technology to AShBMs.

ASAT weapons would have been a far better example, but even they are still significantly different from AShBM.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
plawolf said:
There is no atmosphere in space. So no wind, no turbulence, no air friction thermal heating.

It's also far easier for ground based radars and cameras to observe objects in orbit compared to something in orbit looking down at the earth, as there is no issue with radar clutter, never mind active jamming from a target.

What more, the speeds are you quoting are relative to a fixed point on earth. The relative speeds between the two docking spacecrafts are often slower than some people could run.

Achieving docking between spacecraft in orbit is very hard, but it uses very different technology to AShBMs.

ASAT weapons would have been a far better example, but even they are still significantly different from AShBM.
Click to expand...

That is ballistic 101 every fire control system in tank,fighter jet take account of wind speed, friction etc and the software will adjust the firing

How are you sure that they use radar ? ,They could as well use Infra red imaging sensor . Or maybe multiple sensor to avoid spoof.

Maneuvering 2 body hurtling at around 1500 mile/hr is definitely very difficult and no less than controlling the thruster of ASBM hitting carrier at slow speed of 30 knot
 
SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Hendrik_2000 said:
Guess you never heard of ablative material ! Using controlled burn to cool off the shield.
Every missile reentry vehicle use it
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
heat shield functions by lifting the hot shock layer gas away from the heat shield's outer wall (creating a cooler
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). The boundary layer comes from blowing of gaseous reaction products from the heat shield material and provides protection against all forms of heat flux. The overall process of reducing the heat flux experienced by the heat shield's outer wall by way of a boundary layer is called blockage. Ablation occurs at two levels in an ablative TPS: the outer surface of the TPS material chars, melts, and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, while the bulk of the TPS material undergoes
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and expels product gases. The gas produced by pyrolysis is what drives blowing and causes blockage of convective and catalytic heat flux.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
can be measured in real time using
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, so that the ablative performance can be evaluated.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Ablation can also provide blockage against radiative heat flux by introducing carbon into the shock layer thus making it optically opaque. Radiative heat flux blockage was the primary thermal protection mechanism of the Galileo Probe TPS material (carbon phenolic). Carbon phenolic was
Click to expand...

I see you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Ablatives armor means ;

the removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization
Click to expand...

Guess what happens to the object that evaporates?
It becomes ionized as plasma through heat.
And what are you going to do with the surface that is not shielded, like the lens of IR sensor or the radar emitting antenna?
It has to be place in the front without shields to maintain line of view but in doing so it gets fried as soon as it starts reentry and if you cover it with your trusted shield you go blind because you just blindfolded them.

Next time give it a thought before you post will you.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
SamuraiBlue said:
I see you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Ablatives armor means ;



Guess what happens to the object that evaporates?
It becomes ionized as plasma through heat.
And what are you going to do with the surface that is not shielded, like the lens of IR sensor or the radar emitting antenna?
It has to be place in the front without shields to maintain line of view but in doing so it gets fried as soon as it starts reentry and if you cover it with your trusted shield you go blind because you just blindfolded them.

Next time give it a thought before you post will you.
Click to expand...

So you think it doesn't work. But vaporization also take the heat out of the shield what are you smoking? That is the principle of sweating and any other heat removal . Vaporization need energy It is called Enthalpy or latent heat. Thermodynamic 101
You are the one that need physic 101

Can you even read I doubt it
The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
heat shield functions by lifting the hot shock layer gas away from the heat shield's outer wall (creating a cooler
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). The boundary layer comes from blowing of gaseous reaction products from the heat shield material and provides protection against all forms of heat flux.

ASBM is beyond debate it has been deploy and now there are 2 or even 3 brigade in operation.Everybody acknowledge. Now it is 6 years since IOC even more progress and extend the operation range
 
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T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It seems people ignored what just happened few weeks ago. I have posted it in a separate thread of this forum.

There was a down-sized spacecraft onboard the LM7 rocket. Its purpose was to test the new generation spacecraft which has one new technology that is to maintain radio communication during the blackout period. It works in the same principle as the space shuttle, special shape to create an area behind the craft with less plasma, send and receive signals on Ka band to a rely satellite or space station above. It was a success.

This is the first time the technology is applied to a spacecraft, downsized to similar to a missile warhead. There is no reason to believe it is not already used on DF-21D warhead. It is a fact, not a theory. Arguing the tech works on space shuttle but can not work on a warhead is like saying "I or my buddy can not do it, so nobody can do it".

Continue arguing against it makes me wonder which year is it now.o_O
 
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