China won Turkey's missile defense competition

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Did Turkey qualify to receive subsidies if they purchased Patriots? Since many of the US's arms clients are said to receive subsidies courtesy of the US taxpayer.

Wonder if China should take the US to the WTO for arms dumbing if that's true then. :p
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I don't think the buy US incentive would have been offered here along with there upgrade there is one other trend I have noticed about Turkish arms buys. When they decided on HK416 for there new rifle they licensed production instead of importation, when they bought the K2 tank and howitzers from Korea they designed there own vehicle around the tech. When they bought the Agusta Mangusta they licensed production, when they bought the UH60T they licensed production. The US government arms incentive is based on buy American made. This program likely would be Turkish made. Even the HQ9s built will likely be made in Turkey, not China.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
I don't think the buy US incentive would have been offered here along with there upgrade there is one other trend I have noticed about Turkish arms buys. When they decided on HK416 for there new rifle they licensed production instead of importation, when they bought the K2 tank and howitzers from Korea they designed there own vehicle around the tech. When they bought the eurocopter mangusta they licensed production, when they bought the UH60T they licensed production. The US government arms incentive is based on buy American made. This program likely would be Turkish made. Even the HQ9s built will likely be made in Turkey, not China.

Man, that means Turkey got some pretty good military industry if they are able to license build pretty much anything from around the world for their own needs.
 

hardware

Banned Idiot
is there live firing against simulated target (screen by jamming and decoy?) performance of the radar under simulated intense jamming?
air force magazine reported that NATO lease slovakia "Flap Lid" PAR to see just how effective it perform,and was surprisely
it's ability to target tracedk even under massive jamming.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Not sure it might fallow such a system then again its just as likely for Turkey to go its own way. The second the Turks selected it is the second they started developing there own variant.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
China's bid was also the cheapest out of the others, which almost certainly had an effect on the outcome. However, the HQ-9 is a markedly powerful system comprising of a 200 km range missile supported by a network of advanced LO spotting AESA radars, with which China has plenty of experience.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Does it mean NATO (The US) will have access to HQ-9 SAMs ?

Anyway .. more $$$ available for the Chinese to even develop more advanced system, HQ-9C/D maybe
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
I'm still waiting for the development to appear on western media.

Reuters has reported this news:

(Reuters) - NATO member Turkey has chosen a Chinese defense firm that has been sanctioned by Washington to co-produce a $4 billion long-range air and missile defense system, rejecting rival bids from Russian, U.S. and European firms.

The Turkish defense minister announced the decision to award the contract to China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) in a statement on Thursday.

In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.

It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalized the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.

Officials at state-run CPMIEC, the marketing arm of China's missile manufacturing industry, could not immediately be reached for comment.

Turkey, which has the second-largest deployable military force in the NATO alliance, has no long-range missile defense system of its own, but NATO has deployed the U.S.-built Patriot air and missile defense system there since 2012.

The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.

Raytheon Co (RTN.N), which builds the Patriot missile system, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.

"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.

MADE IN CHINA

CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.

After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.

China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.

Turkish Defense Minister Ismet Yilmaz's statement also said a contract to produce six corvette ships by Koc Holding (KCHOL.IS), Turkey's biggest conglomerate, had been canceled. A contract to build two ships would be awarded to the Turkish naval shipyard. The construction of four remaining ships will be put out to tender later, Yilmaz said.

Koc Holding was recently accused of backing the 1997 military overthrow of Turkey's first Islamist-led government, sending the firm's shares tumbling on fears of a deepening vendetta against the country's secular business elite.

The Turkish government launched a probe into the taxes of Koc energy firms in July, weeks after criticizing one of the family's hotels for sheltering protesters during anti-government unrest that rocked several cities over the summer.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Does it mean NATO (The US) will have access to HQ-9 SAMs ?

Anyway .. more $$$ available for the Chinese to even develop more advanced system, HQ-9C/D maybe

It will be an export version of HQ-9 (called FD-2000) so chances are any sensitive hardware and software would be substantially modified or downgraded from the domestic version. No way they would've sold the mainstay of their IADS without considering all the juicy intelligence US could siphon from it.

and 3 billion (actually 3 billion - costs) would probably be peanuts compared to whatever PLA is allocating to fund the HQ-9 successor.



I'm still waiting for the development to appear on western media.

It has -- on quite a few defence media sites. Don't expect mainstream media to give this deal much exposure, it's not that news worthy for your average joe.



China's bid was also the cheapest out of the others, which almost certainly had an effect on the outcome. However, the HQ-9 is a markedly powerful system comprising of a 200 km range missile supported by a network of advanced LO spotting AESA radars, with which China has plenty of experience.

Well, we don't quite know if HQ-9 actually has a slant range that high, despite what sinodefence.com says. I remember a brochure years ago saying it was more like 120km, which is still competitive with the other offerings, mind. And the presence of an AESA acquisition radar isn't exactly unique to HQ-9, all the others had high performance phased array radars as well, probably with comparable anti LO performance.


No, I think what won china this deal (apart from competitive performance), was its low price, terms such as co production and tech transfer, turkey's movements towards a more independent foreign policy outside of NATO, and possible under the table doodads that may include "unrelated" economic deals, probably in about that order of importance.
 
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