China pleased after observing "Valiant Shield"

Totoro · Jun 28, 2006

Nice articles there chicket, lots of effort put into them, well done. I do have a few questions however.

Do su30mkk and mk2 have wet points for external fuel tanks? I was under impression that no su27/30 had those except a new export version russians have started offering just recently.

Did i understand you correctly that you suggest that il78 would refuel each other at some point? If so, are you sure they're capable of that? If i misunderstood that, i apologize.

Finally, the helicopters stored on ships. Would it be necesarry to keep them partially dissasembled? Wouldn't that be a time hogging thing to assemble them? Also, just where would they be stored? How would they be lifted up on the helipad? Would it be possible to just safely and tightly fasten the helicopter on the heliped? They should be able to whistand the trip on all but most rough sea states that way.

chicket9 · Jun 28, 2006

Ok ok...

sorry, IL-78 cannot midair refuel, and Su-30MKK can't carry fuel tanks. Sorry for that folks, thats how little I know about inflight refuelling. I heard that the combat radius of Su-30s would be extended to only some 3200 km with IL-78 support, and that is far too short to support the PLAN task force too far out.

As for the helicopters. I mean, it probably has not been done in naval warfare before, not even in the Falklands, because the RN had a carrier, and other helicopters were based in hangars. But for PLAN task force conducting a limited heliborne campaign...no ship currently could carry such assault transports. I mean, each destroyer/frigate would accomodate its own helicopter for ASW/ASV. But for the LST, especially the Yuting II, I personally think it is possible. If you place a chopper placed on the Yuting's helideck on extended long range cruises, then the chopper would be highly vulnerable to gust, heavy rains, waves, and not to mention could even be shaken off by severe sea storms. So to be safe, it would always be preferable to store these assault transports in a hangar.

The Yuting II has no hangar, but look at the causeway cut through the superstructure, from the helideck to the tank deck. In otherwords, the helideck and tank deck are connected by a large enough causeway that allows perhaps vehicles as big as tanks to go through. Now, the helideck of each YUting is credited to operate up to two medium sized assault transports. Now before the landing operations, while the LSTs are operating in the high seas, the helicopters could be unassembled temporarily. Eg, the main air frame would be tied down and covered by waterproofing on the helideck, while the back rotor, weapons, fuel, main rotors/engines and pylons would be stored on the tank deck or under the tank deck. I mean, before an amphibious assault, perhaps the hour or two before (assuming that the landing has been preplanned and on schedule), the choppers could be assembled before take off. Therefore the point of this is, the helicopters would not be loss due to rolling off ships or damaged through high sea or storm conditions. This is crucial for the limited air assets to stay operational while the LSTs travel for many thousands of km. But as they approach the warzone (perhaps 700-500 km out), then these helicopters could be readied for operation.

tphuang · Jun 28, 2006

chicket9 said:
Ok ok...

sorry, IL-78 cannot midair refuel, and Su-30MKK can't carry fuel tanks. Sorry for that folks, thats how little I know about inflight refuelling. I heard that the combat radius of Su-30s would be extended to only some 3200 km with IL-78 support, and that is far too short to support the PLAN task force too far out.

As for the helicopters. I mean, it probably has not been done in naval warfare before, not even in the Falklands, because the RN had a carrier, and other helicopters were based in hangars. But for PLAN task force conducting a limited heliborne campaign...no ship currently could carry such assault transports. I mean, each destroyer/frigate would accomodate its own helicopter for ASW/ASV. But for the LST, especially the Yuting II, I personally think it is possible. If you place a chopper placed on the Yuting's helideck on extended long range cruises, then the chopper would be highly vulnerable to gust, heavy rains, waves, and not to mention could even be shaken off by severe sea storms. So to be safe, it would always be preferable to store these assault transports in a hangar.

The Yuting II has no hangar, but look at the causeway cut through the superstructure, from the helideck to the tank deck. In otherwords, the helideck and tank deck are connected by a large enough causeway that allows perhaps vehicles as big as tanks to go through. Now, the helideck of each YUting is credited to operate up to two medium sized assault transports. Now before the landing operations, while the LSTs are operating in the high seas, the helicopters could be unassembled temporarily. Eg, the main air frame would be tied down and covered by waterproofing on the helideck, while the back rotor, weapons, fuel, main rotors/engines and pylons would be stored on the tank deck or under the tank deck. I mean, before an amphibious assault, perhaps the hour or two before (assuming that the landing has been preplanned and on schedule), the choppers could be assembled before take off. Therefore the point of this is, the helicopters would not be loss due to rolling off ships or damaged through high sea or storm conditions. This is crucial for the limited air assets to stay operational while the LSTs travel for many thousands of km. But as they approach the warzone (perhaps 700-500 km out), then these helicopters could be readied for operation.

They were mentionning on the Chinese forum that type 71 LPD could be used as a attack helo carrier. Although, it appeared from the previous diagrams of type 71, they are only designed to carry 2 Z-8 sized helicopters. I could be wrong though.

China pleased after observing "Valiant Shield"

Totoro

Major

chicket9

New Member

tphuang

Lieutenant General