China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Further, it is not simply a matter of China spending as much on R&D as the rest of the developed world by the end of our period (2035), since the rest of the developed world collectively is currently ahead of China in most areas. China would have to spend significantly more than the rest of the developed world and do so over an extended period of time to catch up. And this is under the assumption that simply throwing money and manpower at R&D guarantees results.

No, your statements are analytically incorrect.

It's easier and cheaper to catchup in terms of technology, because you know someone else has already developed the technology and you already know roughly what they've done.

But when you're pursuing a new unknown technology, you spend much more time, effort and money to explore and test.

Take ASML's EUV lithography machines for example.
ASML spent over 15 years to develop them.

In comparison, I think we'll see a Chinese company take 5-10 years to develop the technology.
And it will certainly be at a much lower cost.

---

Let's test that assumption about R&D spending.

Chinese companies throw more money and manpower at R&D than the rest of the developed world.
China already has a larger marketplace for smartphones and electronics than the rest of the developed world.
Those sales generate the profits required for companies to invest in better products for that market.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Chinese companies become world-class technology leaders, based on the domestic Chinese market alone.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
As I said before the older Chinese academic, diplomats are enamored by western ideal and democracy but younger generation intellectual is less so. They see the weaknesses of western democracy and relative strength of Chinese authoritarian system and draw their own conclusion. As well they are increasingly drawn on Chinese philosophy and state craft. They are more and more attracted to German philosopher Carl Schmitt who said

“The survival of the state comes first, and constitutional law must serve this fundamental objective,” Professor Chen, the Peking University academic,
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, citing Mr. Schmitt, the authoritarian German jurist, to make the case for a security law in Hong Kong.

“When the state is in dire peril,” Professor Chen wrote, leaders could set aside the usual constitutional norms, “in particular provisions for civic rights, and take all necessary measures.”


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‘Clean Up This Mess’: The Chinese Thinkers Behind Xi’s Hard Line
Chinese academics have been honing the Communist Party’s authoritarian response in Hong Kong, rejecting the liberal ideas of their youth.


Tian Feilong, a Chinese intellectual in favor of Hong Kong’s new national security law, in Beijing. As a graduate student, he attended a traditionally more liberal university.

Tian Feilong, a Chinese intellectual in favor of Hong Kong’s new national security law, in Beijing. As a graduate student, he attended a traditionally more liberal university.Credit...Giulia Marchi for The New York Times

By
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Aug. 2, 2020


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HONG KONG — When Tian Feilong first arrived in Hong Kong as demands for free elections were on the rise, he said he felt sympathetic toward a society that seemed to reflect the liberal political ideas he had studied as a graduate student in Beijing.
Then, as the calls escalated into protests across Hong Kong in 2014, he increasingly embraced Chinese warnings that freedom could go too far, threatening national unity. He became an ardent critic of the demonstrations, and six years later he is a staunch defender of the
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that China has imposed on the former British colony.

Mr. Tian has joined a tide of Chinese scholars who have turned against Western-inspired ideas that once flowed in China’s universities, instead promoting the proudly authoritarian worldview ascendant under Xi Jinping, the Communist Party leader. This cadre of Chinese intellectuals serve as champions, even official advisers, defending and honing the party’s hardening policies, including the
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in Hong Kong.
“Back when I was weak, I had to totally play by your rules. Now I’m strong and have confidence, so why can’t I lay down my own rules and values and ideas?” Mr. Tian, 37, said in an interview, explaining the prevailing outlook in China. Witnessing the tumult as a visiting scholar in Hong Kong in 2014, Mr. Tian said, he “rethought the relationship between individual freedom and state authority.”

“Hong Kong is, after all, China’s Hong Kong,” he said. “It’s up to the Communist Party to clean up this mess.”
While China’s Communist Party has long nurtured legions of academics to defend its agenda, these authoritarian thinkers stand out for their unabashed, often flashily erudite advocacy of one-party rule and assertive sovereignty, and their turn against the liberal ideas that many of them once embraced.


They portray themselves as fortifying China for an era of deepening ideological rivalry. They describe the United States as a
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overreaching shambles, even more so in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. They
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on Communist Party control, arguing that Western-inspired ideas of the rule of law are a dangerous mirage that could hobble the party.

They argue that China must reclaim its status as a world power, even as a new
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displacing the United States. They extol Mr. Xi as a historic leader, guiding China through a momentous transformation.
A number of these scholars, sometimes
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,” have worked on policy toward Hong Kong, the sole territory under Chinese rule that has been a stubborn enclave for pro-democracy defiance of Beijing. Their proposals have fed into China’s increasingly uncompromising line, including the security law, which has swiftly
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and
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.

“We ignore these voices at our own risk,” said
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, a historian at the University of British Columbia who helps run
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, a website that translates works by Chinese thinkers. “They give voice to a stream of Chinese political thought that is probably more influential than liberal thought.”
As well as earnestly citing Mr. Xi’s speeches, these academics
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who counseled stern rulership, along with Western critics of liberal political traditions. Traditional Marxism is rarely cited; they are proponents of order, not revolution.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Further, it is not simply a matter of China spending as much on R&D as the rest of the developed world by the end of our period (2035), since the rest of the developed world collectively is currently ahead of China in most areas. China would have to spend significantly more than the rest of the developed world and do so over an extended period of time to catch up. And this is under the assumption that simply throwing money and manpower at R&D guarantees results.

As far as talent is concerned, Lee Kuan Yew once said, "China can draw on the talents of 1.3 billion people. The United States can draw on the talents of 7 billion." The West's more open and multicultural society is better poised to take advantage of the human capital and talent that is being produced around the world every day. Just look at how many Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and inventors and CEOs have been foreigners. Elon Musk is South African. Andrew Grove was Hungarian. Sergei Brin is a Soviet Jew. Satya Nadella is Indian.

If you want to argue that China can achieve technological parity going it alone, China needs to demonstrate it. So far, it has worked on semiconductors for decades, engines for decades, its space program for decades, and yet... it is failed to even come close to the West in these basic areas. Even the AVIC AG600 runs on a Russian engine. This is not even a jet engine! It's a turboprop engine.

Finally, it is worth remembering that 80% of the world's population lives outside China, and that share will only grow as the century wears on. While many of these countries are poor today, eventually India will develop. Eventually Africa will develop. Eventually the Middle East will develop. Eventually Southeast Asia will develop. If the majority of these areas fall into the Western orbit then it is hard to see China succeeding in the long run by going it alone.

This another BS where did you get an idea that AG 600 run on Russian engine it is not The engine is WS6J

Data from AVIC
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General characteristics
  • Capacity: 50 rescued or 12 t (26,000 lb) of water
  • Length: 36.9 m (121 ft 1 in)
  • Wingspan: 38.8 m (127 ft 4 in)
  • Height: 12.1 m (39 ft 8 in)
  • Max takeoff weight: 53,500 kg (117,947 lb) from land, 49,800 kg (109,800 lb) from choppy sea
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  • Powerplant: 4 ×
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  • Propellers: 6-bladed
Again, the west has a lead in semiconductor because of legacy that semiconductor was invented in the west and they have long lead. China was weak because of self-inflicted injury of CR where China lost 10 to 15 years in semiconductor due to CR in 60's when it was the incubation period of semiconductor.
Latter there were just no demand for semiconductor until 1980's when China start to design and build smart phone and PC even then they rely on the west because there was just no money to build expensive FAB.

The same with engine until 1980 China was too poor to afford air travel most people still used bike or public busses as transportation Yes the military put a lot of effort to build jet engine but with minuscule of budget, low industrial base and facing technical embargo, they have nowhere to go.
But thing get improved in the 80's and now China successfully produced WS10 and matured enough to put it in serial production I don't know why you said China can't produce jet engine?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Certainly.
With new points. He didn't mean by repeating all the stuff that was already debunked and rebutted.
China has a population x4 the United States. But for it to have an economy x4 larger, its per capita GDP would have to equal the United States. According to the IMF, China's per capita GDP in 2020 will be 21,000 USD while the US will be 67,000 USD. If America's per capita GDP grows by just 1.5% per year, it would take China's per capita GDP growing at 5% per year for 35 years to catch up. Your scenario would be reached in the year 2055. Needless to say, no one can guess what growth rates of each country will be in 10 years, let alone 30 years. Further, that is not accounting for the fact that China's labor force and population will be in deep decline by 2055 with a large elderly population to support, similar to Japan today. So it is pointless to make arguments based on such distant scenarios.

Certainly, China's GDP could exceed the US GDP by a large amount if it does not remain poor. Therefore, it would have a lot of power potential.

How far relations decline is up for debate, but this situation will last for another at least another 10 years, until China opens up a commanding lead in terms of GDP/technology. For example, the Australian government white papers project the Chinese economy at 2x the USA in the 2030-2035 timeframe.

If China succeeds here, then we both agree. But China should be careful in this scenario.

For one thing, are you talking about GDP (PPP) or GDP (Nominal)? If you mean GDP (PPP) it is a reasonable timeframe. However, by GDP (nominal), China's GDP is 14 trillion USD while the US is 21 trillion USD. In order for the Chinese economy to be 2x the USA in 15 years, if the US economy grows at a modest 2.2% a year, China's economy would have to grow at 8.2% a year to be 2x the USA economy by the end of the period 2035. Given that in recent years China has not even managed 7% growth, it is unlikely that the Australian government white paper prediction will be achieved by 2035 in nominal GDP.
That's fine, I don't think China will double the US in nominal GDP at all by 2035. However, doubling has no meaning other than being symbolic and when comparing the military, PPP is much more relevant than nominal GDP unless you're India and have to buy everything foreign.
Still, I believe it could still achieve good relations with the US if keeps military spending at a low level, settles border disputes with its neighbors, and liberalizes.
So China should disarm itself, forsake all of its disputes letting neighbors take whatever they want, and become a democracy right? LOLOL What else did your CIA handlers ask you to try for? Maybe denuclearization? Have China conduct all business in USD? Maybe let Falun Gong replace the CCP? LOLOL Should China let the US write its next constitution or is that too fast, wait for all the other stuff to happen first?

How about F no to all of them? And watch China rise nonetheless. And China doesn't want good relations with it's main rival; China wants to watch them wail as China soars. That's the whole point of a rivalry and that's what's happening now. No changes needed.
While there would still be some paranoid voices in the U.S. suspicious of China, there would be no excuse to launch a new Cold War and if the U.S. tried, it would be resisted by other countries, even its own allies, so it would fail.
They don't need an excuse to do anything. The manufacturing of steel and an app for funny videos are all national security threats. You don't waste your time reasoning with crazy people. And American allies are currently resisting American requests by as much as they dare to.
This would be a good scenario for China because it would enjoy a lot of power, but it would not need to spend much on the military. Let America continue to be the world's policeman, while China enjoys the fruits of the US-led international order.
American power and American policeman-ship only serve American interests. No country can rise above or even challenge America in this world; the only fruits will be for America or be bitter fruits for those who don't ascribe to American supremacy.
And even if the US did want to start a fight in this scenario, there would be nothing to prevent China from ramping up military spending in that case.
You are truly ignorant and stupid. You cannot ramp up military spending today and be ready for war tomorrow! It takes decades of high military spending and planning to be ready for war, much less a world war.
Further, it is not simply a matter of China spending as much on R&D as the rest of the developed world by the end of our period (2035), since the rest of the developed world collectively is currently ahead of China in most areas. China would have to spend significantly more than the rest of the developed world and do so over an extended period of time to catch up. And this is under the assumption that simply throwing money and manpower at R&D guarantees results.
There is no such thing as a collective of the rest of the developed world. Technologically, China is growing much faster than any other nation and is competitive in every important field.
As far as talent is concerned, Lee Kuan Yew once said, "China can draw on the talents of 1.3 billion people. The United States can draw on the talents of 7 billion." The West's more open and multicultural society is better poised to take advantage of the human capital and talent that is being produced around the world every day. Just look at how many Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and inventors and CEOs have been foreigners. Elon Musk is South African. Andrew Grove was Hungarian. Sergei Brin is a Soviet Jew. Satya Nadella is Indian.
Lee Kuan Yew never lived to see China as it is today nor what the US has become today. If he's right, then Chinese people must be Godly to catch up so quickly using the talents of so few against so many. But the truth is that China currently has more STEM talent than the EU and USA combined, possibly by double and that is a relatively new situation, which is why China moves so much faster than they do.
If you want to argue that China can achieve technological parity going it alone, China needs to demonstrate it. So far, it has worked on semiconductors for decades, engines for decades, its space program for decades, and yet... it is failed to even come close to the West in these basic areas. Even the AVIC AG600 runs on a Russian engine. This is not even a jet engine! It's a turboprop engine.
First of all, the sheer speed of Chinese technological development is demonstration enough. Secondly, you are cherry-picking areas in a way such that in order to silence your argument, China needs to have already overtaken every other country at every technology, which is not what is claimed here. Chinese technology at hypersonic missiles, ASMB, quantum satellites, 5G, supercomputing, maglev, etc... are all at the forefront of global technology, some leading the world. This is from a China that has behind at everything. This is a demonstration. What you are asking for is the finished product of total global technological dominance.
Finally, it is worth remembering that 80% of the world's population lives outside China, and that share will only grow as the century wears on. While many of these countries are poor today, eventually India will develop. Eventually Africa will develop. Eventually the Middle East will develop. Eventually Southeast Asia will develop. If the majority of these areas fall into the Western orbit then it is hard to see China succeeding in the long run by going it alone.
Centuries! Wow, you just said that it's unpredictable how stable economies will evolve leading to 2030 or 2035 and now you've got a prediction for centuries that spans to civilizations across the globe that we're supposed to take seriously? LOLOL
 
Last edited:

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
No, your statements are analytically incorrect.

It's easier and cheaper to catchup in terms of technology, because you know someone else has already developed the technology and you already know roughly what they've done.

But when you're pursuing a new unknown technology, you spend much more time, effort and money to explore and test.

Take ASML's EUV lithography machines for example.
ASML spent over 15 years to develop them.

In comparison, I think we'll see a Chinese company take 5-10 years to develop the technology.
And it will certainly be at a much lower cost.

Unfortunately, that is not how technology works. Having a "rough" knowledge of what someone has done does not meaningfully help you create a 180 ton machine with 5,000 suppliers and mirrors ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimeter.

EUV was theoretically proven in 1998. It took them 20 more years to practically develop it. There is no reason to think China would take less time. If anything, China may take even longer because it does not have all the supplier industries that ASML had access to during the 2000s and 2010s. Many of those industries don't even exist in China or are just getting started at a primitive state. If China develops an EUV machine by 2040 I will be impressed.

Maybe if China had maintained good relations with the West, bidden its time and hidden its strength a bit longer, it could have imported an EUV machine from the Netherlands, and then it would have been able to disassemble it and study it, and gain some clues. (Although even that would have cost it $250 million and give itself away). But it cannot even do that now.

Let's test that assumption about R&D spending.

Chinese companies throw more money and manpower at R&D than the rest of the developed world.
China already has a larger marketplace for smartphones and electronics than the rest of the developed world.
Those sales generate the profits required for companies to invest in better products for that market.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Chinese companies become world-class technology leaders, based on the domestic Chinese market alone.

The global consumer electronics market was $1.2 trillion in 2017.
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The China consumer electronics market was $247 billion in 2020.
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Most of the world market is OUTSIDE China. Therefore, that is where the battle is going to be. If China fails to gain a bigger share of the overall world market than the West, it will have a smaller market. That means less revenue for R&D.

Regarding the WJ-6 engine that powers the AG600, it is a copy license of the Russian Ivchenko AI-20 engine developed in the 1950s. Even for 1950s technology China still copies Russia. China has been importing from Russia for 70 years. When China no longer needs to import military equipment from Russia, then I will start to pay attention when keyboard Chinese nationalists start beating their chests and boasting about "having more R&D than the entire developed world." This is like talking about acing the PhD dissertation defense when you have not even graduated from middle school yet. Graduate from middle school first, then we can talk about University. ;)

Regarding China's RMB currency exchange rate appreciation to get you the GDP statistics you want:
There is no evidence that the RMB is appreciating against the dollar.

During the Deng Xiaoping era the RMB became internationally exchanged in a meaningful way for the first time. Great success!

During the Jiang Zemin era the RMB was stable at 8.3 per dollar which was good for economic and business planning and predictability. When the Asian financial crisis happened and Thailand, Indonesia, Korea, even Japan devalued their currency, China held firm at 8.3. This gained China great credibility in Asia. When there was a speculative attack on the Hong Kong dollar, China beat it back. Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji were masters. Great success!

During the Hu Jintao era the RMB appreciated from 8.3 to 6.3, reflecting China's growth and making foreign imports cheaper for Chinese while allowing Chinese yuan to buy more abroad. Great success!

But during the Xi Jinping era, when he has made a hardline turn and started fighting with everyone, the RMB has lost value. Ten years ago its value was 6.3 to the dollar, whereas today it is 7 to the dollar. There is currently nothing in the market to indicate the RMB will appreciate. If anything it will go down even further as China gets into more fights with more countries and makes more and more enemies.

Regarding the current US recession, it is thanks to the pandemic which has people staying home. But the US savings rate, which was 0% 15 years ago, has now surged to 19%. When the pandemic is over all that pent up consumer demand will come out and stimulate the US economy, and as people go out the economy will return to its normal trajectory. There is no permanent damage to the US economy. If anything, the pandemic has accelerated the US economy's transition to e-commerce, remote work, and technology. Google, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft have all reported buffo earnings and profits.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Unfortunately, that is not how technology works. Having a "rough" knowledge of what someone has done does not meaningfully help you create a 180 ton machine with 5,000 suppliers and mirrors ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimeter.

EUV was theoretically proven in 1998. It took them 20 more years to practically develop it. There is no reason to think China would take less time. If anything, China may take even longer because it does not have all the supplier industries that ASML had access to during the 2000s and 2010s. Many of those industries don't even exist in China or are just getting started at a primitive state. If China develops an EUV machine by 2040 I will be impressed.

Maybe if China had maintained good relations with the West, bidden its time and hidden its strength a bit longer, it could have imported an EUV machine from the Netherlands, and then it would have been able to disassemble it and study it, and gain some clues. (Although even that would have cost it $250 million and give itself away). But it cannot even do that now.



The global consumer electronics market was $1.2 trillion in 2017.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The China consumer electronics market was $247 billion in 2020.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Most of the world market is OUTSIDE China. Therefore, that is where the battle is going to be. If China fails to gain a bigger share of the overall world market than the West, it will have a smaller market. That means less revenue for R&D.

Regarding the WJ-6 engine that powers the AG600, it is a copy license of the Russian Ivchenko AI-20 engine developed in the 1950s. Even for 1950s technology China still copies Russia. China has been importing from Russia for 70 years. When China no longer needs to import military equipment from Russia, then I will start to pay attention when keyboard Chinese nationalists start beating their chests and boasting about "having more R&D than the entire developed world." This is like talking about acing the PhD dissertation defense when you have not even graduated from middle school yet. Graduate from middle school first, then we can talk about University. ;)

Regarding China's RMB currency exchange rate appreciation to get you the GDP statistics you want:
There is no evidence that the RMB is appreciating against the dollar.

During the Deng Xiaoping era the RMB became internationally exchanged in a meaningful way for the first time. Great success!

During the Jiang Zemin era the RMB was stable at 8.3 per dollar which was good for economic and business planning and predictability. When the Asian financial crisis happened and Thailand, Indonesia, Korea, even Japan devalued their currency, China held firm at 8.3. This gained China great credibility in Asia. When there was a speculative attack on the Hong Kong dollar, China beat it back. Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji were masters. Great success!

During the Hu Jintao era the RMB appreciated from 8.3 to 6.3, reflecting China's growth and making foreign imports cheaper for Chinese while allowing Chinese yuan to buy more abroad. Great success!

But during the Xi Jinping era, when he has made a hardline turn and started fighting with everyone, the RMB has lost value. Ten years ago its value was 6.3 to the dollar, whereas today it is 7 to the dollar. There is currently nothing in the market to indicate the RMB will appreciate. If anything it will go down even further as China gets into more fights with more countries and makes more and more enemies.

Regarding the current US recession, it is thanks to the pandemic which has people staying home. But the US savings rate, which was 0% 15 years ago, has now surged to 19%. When the pandemic is over all that pent up consumer demand will come out and stimulate the US economy, and as people go out the economy will return to its normal trajectory. There is no permanent damage to the US economy. If anything, the pandemic has accelerated the US economy's transition to e-commerce, remote work, and technology. Google, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft have all reported buffo earnings and profits.

You talk about university and for people to complete middle schools first. Well tell me, Mr Phd of everything. When and where did you get your economics degree?

Because everthing you said about exchange rate and USA economic dire strait is BS.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
You talk about university and for people to complete middle schools first. Well tell me, Mr Phd of everything. When and where did you get your economics degree?

Because everthing you said about exchange rate and USA economic dire strait is BS.

The University of Virginia. I also studied economics at Harvard.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I actually live in America. I talk to Americans every day. You don't understand it.

Americans' attitude towards China isn't driven by the Deep State or the CIA. If anything, most Americans want an even tougher line on China than their government. I've seen many Americans say all tech companies should be banned from doing business with China, or that China should be cut off like North Korea and kicked out of the UN. Compared to that, the attitude of the Trump administration is moderate! What's driving these attitude is not the Deep State or the CIA. It's things like China's camps in Xinjiang and the National Security Law in Hong Kong. And China's constant fighting and disputes with all other countries. Also that China is blamed for coronavirus. Americans are fearful of China's more hardline direction. During the Hu Jintao era there was no problem.

Yes, America has oligarchial aspects, it has problems with it's political system. I'm not saying it's perfect. But there is a chance that Trump could be voted out this year and replaced by Biden. Could that happen in China? No. In America you can curse out the President, and say whatever you want against the President online without getting arrested. For minorities and the marginalized, America is often better. For example, if you are LGBT, you can get legally married in America but not China. You have a lot more rights than in China and politicians will pander to you if you belong to certain strategic voting areas.

This is all so very naive and simply wrong. China's camps in Xinjiang is at worst a consequence of extremists and separatists who have attacked Chinese cities multiple times before. Even without getting into a real intellectual/philosophical debate about all this, answer us why the US is portrayed positively here when the comparison you've used is "Xinjiang camps" which are quite possibly exaggerations or total fiction, when the US had the real life Guantanamo prison that was admitted to be holding SUSPECTED unproven "terrorists" and admitted to have conducted torture. So already here the discussion is over at least when it comes to the US being some moral superior and getting some divine rights as a result of this supposed moral superiority. We can talk about this for days and I can embarrass your faulty thinking for days but those who need convincing will never see the light.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Unfortunately, that is not how technology works. Having a "rough" knowledge of what someone has done does not meaningfully help you create a 180 ton machine with 5,000 suppliers and mirrors ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimeter.

EUV was theoretically proven in 1998. It took them 20 more years to practically develop it. There is no reason to think China would take less time. If anything, China may take even longer because it does not have all the supplier industries that ASML had access to during the 2000s and 2010s. Many of those industries don't even exist in China or are just getting started at a primitive state.

Maybe if China had maintained good relations with the West, bidden its time and hidden its strength a bit longer, it could have imported an EUV machine from the Netherlands, and then it would have been able to disassemble it and study it, and gain some clues. (Although even that would have cost it $250 million and give itself away). But it cannot even do that now.
So China can innovate for it or develop alternate strategies for lithography. You're looking at the exact time now and losing the big picture, and that is that historically, whenever something is banned to China, China innovates that technology. That pattern has no fail.

The global consumer electronics market was $1.2 trillion in 2017.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The China consumer electronics market was $247 billion in 2020.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Most of the world market is OUTSIDE China. Therefore, that is where the battle is going to be. If China fails to gain a bigger share of the overall world market than the West, it will have a smaller market. That means less revenue for R&D.
First of all, 2020 is not over while you are referring to it in the past, and secondly, you need to compare the global electronics market in 2020 to China's because 2017 is a growth year while 2020 is a contraction year... well, not for China.

And yes, the global market is larger than China's market, but the global market outside of China is not one entity controlled by any one force and China is the world's largest trading nation with faster trade growth than any major country. Don't make it sound like China vs the World when actually, China trades and has expands its influence/ties across the globe while having disagreements with some few members and true fundamental rivalry with only one country.
Regarding the WJ-6 engine that powers the AG600, it is a copy license of the Russian Ivchenko AI-20 engine developed in the 1950s. Even for 1950s technology China still copies Russia. China has been importing from Russia for 70 years. When China no longer needs to import military equipment from Russia, then I will start to pay attention when keyboard Chinese nationalists start beating their chests and boasting about "having more R&D than the entire developed world." This is like talking about acing the PhD dissertation defense when you have not even graduated from middle school yet. Graduate from middle school first, then we can talk about University. ;)
Why don't you apply that logic to the US? When the US doesn't need to import lithography tools and semiconductors, then it can thump its chest about US technology. Every country has technological areas where it is in middle school, university, and PhD level (in your terminology). Just as you had over-simplified things last time and I warned you, you did it again. Technology is not one field or thing; as you said, "Unfortunately, that is not how technology works."
Regarding China's RMB currency exchange rate appreciation to get you the GDP statistics you want:
There is no evidence that the RMB is appreciating against the dollar.

During the Deng Xiaoping era the RMB became internationally exchanged in a meaningful way for the first time. Great success!

During the Jiang Zemin era the RMB was stable at 8.3 per dollar which was good for economic and business planning and predictability. When the Asian financial crisis happened and Thailand, Indonesia, Korea, even Japan devalued their currency, China held firm at 8.3. This gained China great credibility in Asia. When there was a speculative attack on the Hong Kong dollar, China beat it back. Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji were masters. Great success!

During the Hu Jintao era the RMB appreciated from 8.3 to 6.3, reflecting China's growth and making foreign imports cheaper for Chinese while allowing Chinese yuan to buy more abroad. Great success!

But during the Xi Jinping era, when he has made a hardline turn and started fighting with everyone, the RMB has lost value. Ten years ago its value was 6.3 to the dollar, whereas today it is 7 to the dollar. There is currently nothing in the market to indicate the RMB will appreciate.
What are we hoping for or what does that mean? The US has repeatedly called for China to increase the value of its currency to balance trade. So if the RMB does/doesn't appreciate, is that a win for China or a win for the US? Or is it just more pointless nonsense from you? Compare China's economic size and growth rate with that of the US. That's the big picture.
If anything it will go down even further as China gets into more fights with more countries and makes more and more enemies.
Refer to last chart showing global opinion of China rising above that of the US... or are you selectively blind?
Regarding the current US recession, it is thanks to the pandemic which has people staying home. But the US savings rate, which was 0% 15 years ago, has now surged to 19%. When the pandemic is over all that pent up consumer demand will come out and stimulate the US economy, and as people go out the economy will return to its normal trajectory. There is no permanent damage to the US economy.
How does that compare with the savings rate in China? How does the rate of consumption growth compare between the 2 nations? When is the pandemic "over"? Different answer for China than the US for sure LOL. What is the actual timeline you predict? Because eventually, America's economy will return to normal; that's not a question. The question is when? Tomorrow? 2030? Quickly back in the game to compete against China, or will it come around to find itself second largest in the world? That's the question.
If anything, the pandemic has accelerated the US economy's transition to e-commerce, remote work, and technology. Google, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft have all reported buffo earnings and profits.
Are you trying to frame this as good or bad? Because China's way ahead here too.
 
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