China Navy Power

Those are some major problems for PLAN and china as a whole. But can a more powerful navy will help protect the LONG TERM interest of china? In protect a nation’s interest, the military in a word is just a short fix. As the speed of our technological development, equipments can be outdated quick and become more and more expensive to build newer ones. Those money spend can take a toll on the country, with US’s DDX and F-22, F-35… how can the PLAN protect the trade and supply line alone? China need more than just a powerful navy… other fusion strategy is needed here.

Petty officer1

FuManChu said:

I know perfectly well that there are anti-Chinese attitudes in the US. But as I said there are things China could do to reduce tensions, just as there are things that it cannot change, nor should try to even if technically it could (such as revaluing the Yuan too much). But then again there are also lots of anti-US attitudes in China. If you want to have a comparison, there are more negative feelings about the US in China than vice versa.

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You didn't say that - you said the entire Indian Navy. That is asking too much.

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The ball is in the US court It is not China but US that ring China with naval and air base around china heck just 7th fleet with it's 200 ships is larger than all 3 Chinese fleet combined Even that is not enough now us is buidling Guam into the largest forward base outside continental US So who you think should make the first move

Now that China for first time in history has the semblance of capable Navy the western world cry foul

Instead of accomodating rising China like the british does after the 2nd world war toward the US The western world is trying to contain China

Fu,

American politicians talk all the time about containing China before China does anything. So it isn't China that will do something first that will justify American interference of the seas for China. Let's all forget about America's right to pre-emptive strike, to which blocking commercial sea lanes will be not a problem in comparison, and only think about China as the aggressor to hide and divert attention away from the hypocrisy of complaining about how many ships China builds while having a military force itself more powerful than the rest of the world combined.

Comparing China with Japan of WWII? The same can be said of the US and its paranoia over what China will do with its blue water navy.

Like I said, this discussion cannot go without politics. You can make all the arguments about Chinese aggression all you want in the hypocrisy of British and US foreign policy being practiced right now. China has its legit reasons to protect its interests. Besides if Chinese technology and skills are inferior to everyone else, what is it that everyone is so frightened about?

Hendrik_2000 said:

Instead of accomodating rising China like the british does after the 2nd world war toward the US The western world is trying to contain China

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Geez, the usual conspiracy theory rubbish. China is not facing a coalition of nations that are trying to "contain" it. If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't be so eager to trade and build relations.

As to the US, it has bases all over the place, but it is the height of arrogance to assume it's all about China. China is one concern, but these days just about everything is. Hell, the Americans are worried about us and the Japanese to the point where at first they wouldn't give us access to the F-35 technology, and it is regarded the Japanese wouldn't be allowed to manufacture the F-22 on license because there might be a
leak from their industry (if the Americans can't trust us, who can they trust?!).

AssassinsMace said:

American politicians talk all the time about containing China before China does anything. So it isn't China that will do something first that will justify American interference of the seas for China.

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So the Americans are going to randomly piss China off for no real reason? They're going to openly invite economic retaliation just because relations aren't great? I don't believe so. China would have to do something pretty serious for the Americans to cut off the sea lanes - maybe even more serious than invading Taiwan.

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It's about time China dropped the insecure, victim-mentality and acted in a more thoughtful manner. I will say this once more, there are things that both China and the US can do to improve matters. To try to blame the other for everything is ridiculous.

That's the last I'm going to say on this matter.

So the Americans are going to randomly piss China off for no real reason? They're going to openly invite economic retaliation just because relations aren't great? I don't believe so. China would have to do something pretty serious for the Americans to cut off the sea lanes - maybe even more serious than invading Taiwan.

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It wouldn't surprise me. Look at the reasons for going into Iraq.

It's about time China dropped the insecure, victim-mentality and acted in a more thoughtful manner. I will say this once more, there are things that both China and the US can do to improve matters. To try to blame the other for everything is ridiculous.

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You're the only one bringing up "victim" here. Accusing that of the position of China and crying about Chinese aggression towards others. We're talking seas lanes and the right to self defense. The same thing your side uses as an excuse.

Geez, the usual conspiracy theory rubbish. China is not facing a coalition of nations that are trying to "contain" it. If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't be so eager to trade and build relations.

As to the US, it has bases all over the place, but it is the height of arrogance to assume it's all about China. China is one concern, but these days just about everything is. Hell, the Americans are worried about us and the Japanese to the point where at first they wouldn't give us access to the F-35 technology, and it is regarded the Japanese wouldn't be allowed to manufacture the F-22 on license because there might be a
leak from their industry (if the Americans can't trust us, who can they trust?!).

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If that would be the case,why would US expand all out effort to maintain arm embargo against China lobying hard to keep the embargo. Accomodating nuclear India to the point of hypocrisy but at the same time sanction Iran because she want to developed nuclear energy

Declaring Taiwan as a part of China but at the same time having security arrangement with Taiwan and making noise about coming to the aid of Taiwan

Encouraging Japan to rearm to the the point of allowing Japan to change the postwar constitution and making arrangement with Japan to help US navy in emergency

If that is not containing I don't know what is.

AssassinsMace said:

It wouldn't surprise me. Look at the reasons for going into Iraq.

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China hasn't recently been subject to (and breaking) UNSC resolutions like Iraq was, nor has it been kicking off conflicts against its neighbours. You cannot compare Iraq and China - though it would be a grave day for Asia if China were to become as beligerant as Iraq used to be.

Self defence is a difficult term, there's no sharp line between defensive and offensive actions/assetts.
I believe China wants to be able to controll waters further out than those the chinese land based fighters and costal vessels can to date. And you can't really blame someone for that I think. Nonetheless it's a difficult situation when one side always tries to catch up with the other while the other side tries to stay ahead (at all means).

Hendrik_2000 said:

If that would be the case,why would US expand all out effort to maintain arm embargo against China lobying hard to keep the embargo. Accomodating nuclear India to the point of hypocrisy but at the same time sanction Iran because she want to developed nuclear energy

Declaring Taiwan as a part of China but at the same time having security arrangement with Taiwan and making noise about coming to the aid of Taiwan

Encouraging Japan to rearm to the the point of allowing Japan to change the postwar constitution and making arrangement with Japan to help US navy in emergency

If that is not containing I don't know what is.

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1. You were talking about the "Western world", not just the US. I said it was nonsense that a coalition of powers was seeking to contain China. China is a concern to the US in part due to problems over Taiwan. The US is committed to helping Taiwan, so obviously it doesn't want to make its own job that much harder by allowing China to buy whatever it wants.

2. India is already a nuclear power - Iran is not. Iran has also made threats to destroy Israel - is India nearly as beligerant? Not really.

3. If the US really wanted to contain China it would subsidise Taiwanese arms shipments - as it is, it often charges more than it does its other customers.

4. China is not the only security concern in the region - North Korea is more of a current problem. Besides the US doesn't want to have to look after Japan. It would much prefer it if it could rely on Japan for military support the world over. Other countries like the UK have supported Japan's efforts to normalise itself - and we don't care nearly as much about China as the Americans do - because we want to see Japan helping out on deployments as well, whether its peacekeeping, disaster relief, or whatever.

China's "threat" does factor into US decision-making, but it is far from being the overriding factor.

On a side-note, although I do not believe the US would attack China without good reason, the same applies the other way.

the PLAN's biggest real threats right now as far as an actual shooting incidnt goes are Vietnam (spratleys) and North Korea (smugglers and a possible war in Korea).

In strateic terms the fleet tasked with seizing the spratelys (with or w/o American aproval) has to be the most powerful. If those suspected reserves are ever proven then the area already listed as one of the worlds most likely flashpoints gows even more volite.

For the forseable future the Phillipines and Vietnam's claims are not going anywhere. Vietnam has the weakest claim, China the oldest and the Phillipines the most legally solid.

With the 8th largest fishery, possibly 4th largest oil and gas reserves, and smack dab in the middle of the busiest trade routes of allthe 7 seas this is the PLAN's major objective.

it is also one reason the USN does not trust China. She has refused any type of joint resource sharing and has occupied several islands in vioaltion of international law.