China is top 3 in everything except...

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
..
#1 producer of steel in the world, accounts for 44% of total world steel production in the year 2010. And #1 manufactering nation in the world (yes overtook US recently).

During the WW2 years when Germany took on all the industrialised world her steel production averaged about 30million tons and only 8million tons of it was devoted to military needs. In fact her whole economy was not placed on a war footing until 1944 as Hitler believed that he could have it both ways, “Kanonen und Butter” .
U.S current steel production is what 45million tons?. I would say that would be more than adequate to cope with such an unlikely conflict, most likely lasting months rather than years.

Futhermore I wouldnt under estimate her ability to cope when the need arises.
 

stardave

Junior Member
During the WW2 years when Germany took on all the industrialised world her steel production averaged about 30million tons and only 8million tons of it was devoted to military needs. In fact her whole economy was not placed on a war footing until 1944 as Hitler believed that he could have it both ways, “Kanonen und Butter” .
U.S current steel production is what 45million tons?. I would say that would be more than adequate to cope with such an unlikely conflict, most likely lasting months rather than years.

Futhermore I wouldnt under estimate her ability to cope when the need arises.

Yeah and please go ahead underestimate China's 683 million tons, which in your mind 99.9999% will be wasted, and in your mind 100% of the 45 million tons by US will be used in military purposes.

Oh and btw, remind me again, what happen to Germany in the end?
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Yeah and please go ahead underestimate China's 683 million tons, which in your mind 99.9999% will be wasted, and in your mind 100% of the 45 million tons by US will be used in military purposes.

Oh and btw, remind me again, what happen to Germany in the end?

German is so amazing, in WW2, they fought 4 superpowers at the same time. The USA, the UK, Russia and France. If Hitler hadn't invaded Russia, Germany would have won the war and Britain would speak German now :)
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Yes Germany industry was gear towards making war machines, but her vital weaknesses during WWII was lack of oil for making diesel fuel for all those, tanks, planes, and ships. That's why Field Marshal Rommel was trying really hard and fast as he can to get to the oil rich field in Caucasus through North Africa. He had some earlier success, but he just could not get to Cairo to make a run at it.
 

Vini_Vidi_Vici

Junior Member
Yeah and please go ahead underestimate China's 683 million tons, which in your mind 99.9999% will be wasted, and in your mind 100% of the 45 million tons by US will be used in military purposes.

Oh and btw, remind me again, what happen to Germany in the end?

A huge, I mean really huge percentage of China's steel and other metal production are achieved through imported mineral ores. Copper comes from Africa, iron from Australia and coal from Brazil (China itself has the largest reserve in the world, but still not enough for the size of population)
.
Currently about 80% of iron ores are imported, mostly from Australia. China indeed needs those steel for modernization and industrialization. But in this topic, where we're talking about potential for total war, then China is very behind in this field. Australia is a major NATO/US ally, anything happens, Australia could easily cut off supply.

China is very similar to Japan, too much population with so little resources. Although Japan is one of the largest producers of steels in the world, their actual national reserve for those things are next to none. Almost everything have to be imported, including uranium, coal, petroleum, iron, copper and etc. That's why during the early stages of WWII, they were so aggressive in taking the resources rich areas, like Manchuria and Korean peninsula for wood and minerals, Phillipines and Indonesia for oil and rubber. Without those things, you simply can't do anything.

As of current state, most of China's resources are still imported, especially those vital for a sustained war. Oil has to be imported from the Middle East, which is easily cut off by the 7th fleet. Rubber from SouthEast Asia, the same problem. Then there is copper, iron and uranium, from Africa and Australia, either ally of NATO or could be cut off.

The only things China has plenty of, without fear of embargo, are hydroelectricity and coal. But coal production is not enough to meet consumption and hydroelectricity in the winter.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
A huge, I mean really huge percentage of China's steel and other metal production are achieved through imported mineral ores. Copper comes from Africa, iron from Australia and coal from Brazil (China itself has the largest reserve in the world, but still not enough for the size of population)
.
Currently about 80% of iron ores are imported, mostly from Australia. China indeed needs those steel for modernization and industrialization. But in this topic, where we're talking about potential for total war, then China is very behind in this field. Australia is a major NATO/US ally, anything happens, Australia could easily cut off supply.

China is very similar to Japan, too much population with so little resources. Although Japan is one of the largest producers of steels in the world, their actual national reserve for those things are next to none. Almost everything have to be imported, including uranium, coal, petroleum, iron, copper and etc. That's why during the early stages of WWII, they were so aggressive in taking the resources rich areas, like Manchuria and Korean peninsula for wood and minerals, Phillipines and Indonesia for oil and rubber. Without those things, you simply can't do anything.

As of current state, most of China's resources are still imported, especially those vital for a sustained war. Oil has to be imported from the Middle East, which is easily cut off by the 7th fleet. Rubber from SouthEast Asia, the same problem. Then there is copper, iron and uranium, from Africa and Australia, either ally of NATO or could be cut off.

The only things China has plenty of, without fear of embargo, are hydroelectricity and coal. But coal production is not enough to meet consumption and hydroelectricity in the winter.


China can get all of those on their own land plus in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmmar, and North Korea. Plus China is the world's monopoly on rare earth metals (about 95%) processing and mining. Cut those off and the NATO and it's allies will be cut off for any high tech equipment that those fancy computers and hard wares needed so badly. Sure the US and NATO could retry and mine their own, but it will take years meanwhile current supplies will be dwindling fast.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Yeah and please go ahead underestimate China's 683 million tons, which in your mind 99.9999% will be wasted, and in your mind 100% of the 45 million tons by US will be used in military purposes.

You need to stop dragging up rubbish from the depths of your imagination and attributing it to me, and pay more attention to what I wrote..

BTW I made no mention of China.



Oh and btw, remind me again, what happen to Germany in the end?

Germanys loss is far more complex than just production capacity.

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ----------

China can get all of those on their own land plus in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmmar, and North Korea. Plus China is the world's monopoly on rare earth metals (about 95%) processing and mining. Cut those off and the NATO and it's allies will be cut off for any high tech equipment that those fancy computers and hard wares needed so badly. Sure the US and NATO could retry and mine their own, but it will take years meanwhile current supplies will be dwindling fast.

Are you suggesting that a conflct of WW2 proportions is just around the corner?
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
A huge, I mean really huge percentage of China's steel and other metal production are achieved through imported mineral ores. Copper comes from Africa, iron from Australia and coal from Brazil (China itself has the largest reserve in the world, but still not enough for the size of population)
.
Currently about 80% of iron ores are imported, mostly from Australia. China indeed needs those steel for modernization and industrialization. But in this topic, where we're talking about potential for total war, then China is very behind in this field. Australia is a major NATO/US ally, anything happens, Australia could easily cut off supply.

China is very similar to Japan, too much population with so little resources. Although Japan is one of the largest producers of steels in the world, their actual national reserve for those things are next to none. Almost everything have to be imported, including uranium, coal, petroleum, iron, copper and etc. That's why during the early stages of WWII, they were so aggressive in taking the resources rich areas, like Manchuria and Korean peninsula for wood and minerals, Phillipines and Indonesia for oil and rubber. Without those things, you simply can't do anything.

As of current state, most of China's resources are still imported, especially those vital for a sustained war. Oil has to be imported from the Middle East, which is easily cut off by the 7th fleet. Rubber from SouthEast Asia, the same problem. Then there is copper, iron and uranium, from Africa and Australia, either ally of NATO or could be cut off.

The only things China has plenty of, without fear of embargo, are hydroelectricity and coal. But coal production is not enough to meet consumption and hydroelectricity in the winter.

Check your facts right before you TALK.

China (by far) produce iron ore more than any country, more than Australia+Brazil combined.

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China is not the same as Japan. Japan has a very limited (poor) resource while China has rich and abundant resources. China' land mass is roughly 30x Japan. China food self sufficiency is roughly 95%, while Japan is merely 55%.

If a war breaks, surely enough iron ore, Aluminium, Oil, Copper, food, etc from internal source. Remember during a war, oil consumption, etc would be limited to public.

Do you know why China is so adamant to produce minimum 500M ton grain ? .. to keep 95% food self sufficiency, I know in 2011 China produced roughly 575M ton grain, way more than the target
 
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stardave

Junior Member
You need to stop dragging up rubbish from the depths of your imagination and attributing it to me, and pay more attention to what I wrote..

BTW I made no mention of China.

Oh I don't know, maybe this topic is talking about China from the start, or maybe you made made a direct reply to me about steel production, which I have pointed out about China in the first place... so of course, it was my stupid imagination to think you are totally not talking about China in anyway possible, so I apologize for you on that. Next time I'll be sure to know you like to go off topic, no matter how close you appear to stay on the topic, it was foolish for me to think you don't mean to think about China posting in a trend about China.


Germanys loss is far more complex than just production capacity.

Yes it is, production played the largest part, production and population and oil. For all of which USSR dominated them in the end. And it was stupid for you to point out Germany to support your thesis, when they actually can help me to support my thesis much more, no matter how much you try to industrialize, if you don't have enough resource and population, unless you can conquer you enemy in the very first few weeks, you are screwed. Germany was the best example of this, and so was Japan. And btw, China does not lack resource or population, or industrial capability when compare to any nation currently on earth.
 
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