China ICBM/SLBM, nuclear arms thread

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bustead

Junior Member
Registered Member
CMP said:
Interesting. So do these additional smaller innovations you mention (such as swapping out DU for HEU) still all fall under the "2nd generation nuclear weapon" design? Do we have any evidence that any nation is currently and actively working on a 3rd generation design?
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Well I mean it depends on how you classify nuclear weapons. Edward Teller (and most experts in the Cold War) only considers directed nuclear weapons to be 3rd generation. No known examples are in development, mainly because they are much more useful in space rather than Earth.
However, there are a lot of innovations when it comes to nuclear weapons. Here are a few.
1. Aspherical implosion. Using a mix of different explosives, you can create a uniform shock front with a non-spherical core. This allows warheads to be designed with less limitations.
2. Neutron bomb. Pretty famous and IMO overhyped. Imagine a small thermonuclear weapon with a special temper that will not contain neutrons. The yield is much smaller, but the neutrons generated from the reaction will escape and hit everything around the bomb. The result is lots of prompt radiation that will kill anyone caught in the blast.
3. Multi-stage weapons. Using the normal thermonuclear secondary as a primer, an even larger fusion stage can be ignited. This is how you build 25 Mt super bombs.
 
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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
bustead said:
Well I mean it depends on how you classify nuclear weapons. Edward Teller (and most experts in the Cold War) only considers directed nuclear weapons to be 3rd generation. No known examples are in development, mainly because they are much more useful in space rather than Earth.
However, there are a lot of innovations when it comes to nuclear weapons. Here are a few.
1. Aspherical implosion. Using a mix of different explosives, you can create a uniform shock front with a non-spherical core. This allows warheads to be designed with less limitations.
2. Neutron bomb. Pretty famous and IMO overhyped. Imagine a small thermonuclear weapon with a special temper that will not contain neutrons. The yield is much smaller, but the neutrons generated from the reaction will escape and hit everything around the bomb. The result is lots of prompt radiation that will kill anyone caught in the blast.
3. Multi-stage weapons. Using the normal thermonuclear secondary as a primer, an even larger fusion stage can be ignited. This is how you build 25 Mt super bombs.
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#1 sounds interesting, but it seems unclear to me how that actually matters in practice. Quite familiar with the idea of #2. Didn't realize that was counted as 3rd gen. And not sure if any were ever deployed. #3 was Tsar Bomba, but I am pretty sure that was not counted as a 3rd generation weapon.
 
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bustead

Junior Member
Registered Member
CMP said:
#1 sounds interesting, but it seems unclear to me how that actually matters in practice. Quite familiar with the idea of #2. Didn't realize that was counted as 3rd gen. And not sure if any were ever deployed. #3 was Tsar Bomba, but I am pretty sure that was not counted as a 3rd generation weapon.
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I am not saying they are 3rd gen, I am saying that nuclear weapons technology is an active field with new developments every now and then.
Aspherical primaries are used in warheads that are small or of weird shape. Say artillery shells or small missiles, where spherical warheads may not fit in the limited internal space.
 
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Kalec

Kalec

Junior Member
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Kalec said:
Something really wild happened last night. Five NOTAMs and something launched from Taiyuan

At the first glance it looks like an ABM test but no news came out or they failed? Anyway it doesn't look like a typical Chinese ABM compared to the previous tests.

Or it could be an ICBM with a HGV warhead? But how it could come with two large NOTAMs after deviating from ballistic trajectory.
View attachment 124304


NOTAM data:
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More official news indicates that this is an important & interesting test:

"I still remember the flight test mission in early 2024. There were many subjects of test and many models (missiles) involved. Multiple research laboratories and departments in the institute formed a joint test team. The leaders of the each institute attached great importance to it and asked relevant departments to prepare them early. All supplies are ready. But the weather here is not so obedient. No matter how thorough the protective measures are, if you stay outside for just a short time, your body will be completely penetrated by the cold wind and you will shiver with cold."

"In the spring of 2024, again in the deep Northwest Desert, as soon as the flight test mission of a key model (often referred to ICBM as key model) was over, the test team were notified to immediately set off to the uninhabited mountainous area with an altitude of 1,000-4,000 meters to conduct a search for the wreckage of the test products in the drop zone.

The terrain of the drop zone is complicated, so many mountains with steep cliff, the search work is like finding a drop of water in the sea. The test team members drove off at 8:00 a.m. every morning, and could not rest until 9:00 p.m. The whole journey was scorched by the sun, covered with thorns and thorns, accompanied only by camels and sheep occasionally.

During the operation, once they found the target suspicious, they immediately used binoculars and drones to make preliminary observations, and then drove to further confirm. When they encountered places inaccessible to vehicles, they could only go on foot, and the team climbed one high mountain after another and crossed one deep ditch after another. The team climbed from mountain to mountain and crossed deep ravines one after another. Finally, the mission was successfully accomplished, and the tired body and mind were instantly revitalized."
 
I

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
Kalec said:
More official news indicates that this is an important & interesting test:

"I still remember the flight test mission in early 2024. There were many subjects of test and many models (missiles) involved. Multiple research laboratories and departments in the institute formed a joint test team. The leaders of the each institute attached great importance to it and asked relevant departments to prepare them early. All supplies are ready. But the weather here is not so obedient. No matter how thorough the protective measures are, if you stay outside for just a short time, your body will be completely penetrated by the cold wind and you will shiver with cold."

"In the spring of 2024, again in the deep Northwest Desert, as soon as the flight test mission of a key model (often referred to ICBM as key model) was over, the test team were notified to immediately set off to the uninhabited mountainous area with an altitude of 1,000-4,000 meters to conduct a search for the wreckage of the test products in the drop zone.

The terrain of the drop zone is complicated, so many mountains with steep cliff, the search work is like finding a drop of water in the sea. The test team members drove off at 8:00 a.m. every morning, and could not rest until 9:00 p.m. The whole journey was scorched by the sun, covered with thorns and thorns, accompanied only by camels and sheep occasionally.

During the operation, once they found the target suspicious, they immediately used binoculars and drones to make preliminary observations, and then drove to further confirm. When they encountered places inaccessible to vehicles, they could only go on foot, and the team climbed one high mountain after another and crossed one deep ditch after another. The team climbed from mountain to mountain and crossed deep ravines one after another. Finally, the mission was successfully accomplished, and the tired body and mind were instantly revitalized."
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Source for the quote?
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Kalec said:
More official news indicates that this is an important & interesting test:

"I still remember the flight test mission in early 2024. There were many subjects of test and many models (missiles) involved. Multiple research laboratories and departments in the institute formed a joint test team. The leaders of the each institute attached great importance to it and asked relevant departments to prepare them early. All supplies are ready. But the weather here is not so obedient. No matter how thorough the protective measures are, if you stay outside for just a short time, your body will be completely penetrated by the cold wind and you will shiver with cold."

"In the spring of 2024, again in the deep Northwest Desert, as soon as the flight test mission of a key model (often referred to ICBM as key model) was over, the test team were notified to immediately set off to the uninhabited mountainous area with an altitude of 1,000-4,000 meters to conduct a search for the wreckage of the test products in the drop zone.

The terrain of the drop zone is complicated, so many mountains with steep cliff, the search work is like finding a drop of water in the sea. The test team members drove off at 8:00 a.m. every morning, and could not rest until 9:00 p.m. The whole journey was scorched by the sun, covered with thorns and thorns, accompanied only by camels and sheep occasionally.

During the operation, once they found the target suspicious, they immediately used binoculars and drones to make preliminary observations, and then drove to further confirm. When they encountered places inaccessible to vehicles, they could only go on foot, and the team climbed one high mountain after another and crossed one deep ditch after another. The team climbed from mountain to mountain and crossed deep ravines one after another. Finally, the mission was successfully accomplished, and the tired body and mind were instantly revitalized."
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Once again, I'm left facepalming at the ineptitude of Chinese propaganda and the Chinese boomer fetishization of poverty and struggle. Zero useful information, which is fine and understandable for opsec reasons. But I'm left wondering why the test team didn't just take a helicopter. Not enough Z-20s?
 
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