China ICBM/SLBM, nuclear arms thread

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Official report confirmed that 094 is doing combat readiness patrol. It is the the first Type 094, Changzheng-9.

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Strong Kim Jong Un vibe here in wording.

Two comments:

1. China's SSBN and SSN fleets are still quite some distances away from becoming on par with their Russian and (especially) American counterparts, both in terms of overall quantity and quality.

Hopefully, the recently heating-up sub-building fever in Huludao can fill up the quantity and quality gaps of China's SSBN and SSN fleets as soon as possible.

2. It is pretty much a common knowledge that every Chinese SSBN and SSN too is tailed by pesky American SSNs as soon as they left their home base. These pesky American SSNs will keep tailing the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs for pretty much as long as those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs are out in the open ocean, right until the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs arrive back at home base. This posed a critical threat towards China's strategic seagoing assets, as those American SSNs (and/or other US Navy warships nearby) will be able to attack and sink those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs as soon as war breaks out.

This might be a wild daydream of mine, but I do hope that this table can be turned in the future.

Once China's underwater nuclear fleet is mature in both quantity and quality, then perhaps it is time for Chinese SSN's turn to tail American SSBNs and SSNs as soon as they leave their home base. Maybe the widely rumored "mini-nuke" submarines that have been alleged to begin construction in Huludao within these few years could do the job.

Let the Americans taste what it is like to have their own underwater strategic assets being constantly tailed and be hold at risk by the very same enemies created by themselves.

 

[Biscuits]

2. It is pretty much a common knowledge that every Chinese SSBN and SSN too is tailed by pesky American SSNs as soon as they left their home base. These pesky American SSNs will keep tailing the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs for pretty much as long as those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs are out in the open ocean, right until the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs arrive back at home base. This posed a critical threat towards China's strategic seagoing assets, as those American SSNs (and/or other US Navy warships nearby) will be able to attack and sink those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs as soon as war breaks out.

Extremely doubtful because doing so would unnecessarily expose all the stats of the US subs.

Once the Chinese SSNs leave the defended waters of the FIC and go towards Japan, they can be tailed, but if US ever sent subs anywhere within comfortable PLA air asset and SSK ranges, the US SSNs would be tailed while tailing the Chinese SSNs.

Up until the 095, China's SSN program was mainly designed around keeping the technologies alive, not as a competitive arm of the undersea forces. For America to allow cutting edge Virginias to be tailed in exchange for tailing crappy basic 093As would be one of the worst deals in the history of deals.

More likely, US will tail them once they pass SOSUS facilities in the edge of the FIC and when China can't devote resources to sending SSKs in the area.

I would also believe that China mainly if not exclusively sends very old subs into the sea of Japan for that reason - one time, Japanese navy encountered a basic 093.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Two comments:

1. China's SSBN and SSN fleets are still quite some distances away from becoming on par with their Russian and (especially) American counterparts, both in terms of overall quantity and quality.

Hopefully, the recently heating-up sub-building fever in Huludao can fill up the quantity and quality gaps of China's SSBN and SSN fleets as soon as possible.

2. It is pretty much a common knowledge that every Chinese SSBN and SSN too is tailed by pesky American SSNs as soon as they left their home base. These pesky American SSNs will keep tailing the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs for pretty much as long as those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs are out in the open ocean, right until the Chinese SSBNs and SSNs arrive back at home base. This posed a critical threat towards China's strategic seagoing assets, as those American SSNs (and/or other US Navy warships nearby) will be able to attack and sink those Chinese SSBNs and SSNs as soon as war breaks out.

This might be a wild daydream of mine, but I do hope that this table can be turned in the future.

Once China's underwater nuclear fleet is mature in both quantity and quality, then perhaps it is time for Chinese SSN's turn to tail American SSBNs and SSNs as soon as they leave their home base. Maybe the widely rumored "mini-nuke" submarines that have been alleged to begin construction in Huludao within these few years could do the job.

Let the Americans taste what it is like to have their own underwater strategic assets being constantly tailed and be hold at risk by the very same enemies created by themselves.

The minis should be pretty good if they use a Stirling engine with battery backup as their AIP. All SSNs already have to have a diesel starter anyhow, and a Stirling with permanent heat supply would be 100% silent and charges batteries slowly, as opposed to a turbine engine which would have rotary noise and require complicated transmissions which also have their own noise.

They'll be slow in endurance running but would still have an amazing sprint with batteries, then they can just lie low on the bottom to recharge between sprints.

 

[BoraTas]

It is pretty much a common knowledge that every Chinese SSBN and SSN too is tailed by pesky American SSNs as soon as they left their home base.

You can be sure that is rarely happening nowadays. If you read actual submariners, those stories are mostly from the 1960's when the USSR was completely oblivious to the passive detection paradigm. As they started to put effort into silencing, the tailing of Soviet subs become harder. Especially considering's China current ASW capabilities, you can be sure most 094s are not tailed anymore

 

[Kalec]

Update on newest DF-5 development:

TL;Dr confirmed early speculation that it is a Chinese version of RD-273. Consequently the DF-5C or D will be a Chinese version of Sarmat.

The development team wrote in 2022 on how to test a high-pressure N2O4/UDMH engine in a safe manner by decompressing the exhaust pressure.


The decompressed chamber pressure is around 2.7 - 2.8 MPa.

The decompression ratio is around 88% at the highest of chamber pressure. A simple math tells us the original chamber pressure is 22.7MPa to 23.3MPa, which so happened to be nearly identical to RD-273, again.

 

[King ZhaoXiang]

They still don't really know what's going on. 3rd largest enrichment program in the world, they go apeshit over Iranian enrichment, yet don't realize that U enrichment is sufficient for a device?

Not even a hypothetical: they were surprised at both of the first Chinese tests because they thought they'd use Pu and found no breeders.

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Yes indeed.

China now has so much weapon grade U that is enough to make many nukes.

However, the argument here is that U nukes are much bigger and heavier than Pu nukes which are not good for MIRV missiles.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

However, the argument here is that U nukes are much bigger and heavier than Pu nukes which are not good for MIRV missiles.

There is no evidential basis whatsoever for such a claim. There are far more important factors that go into determining the weight and volume of a nuclear bomb than choice of fissile material. If a Pu weapon is lighter, it's so by a trivial amount.

 

[antiterror13]

Yes indeed.

China now has so much weapon grade U that is enough to make many nukes.

However, the argument here is that U nukes are much bigger and heavier than Pu nukes which are not good for MIRV missiles.

How much is "so much" of WgU China has ? 14 tons ?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Yes indeed.

China now has so much weapon grade U that is enough to make many nukes.

However, the argument here is that U nukes are much bigger and heavier than Pu nukes which are not good for MIRV missiles.

air deliverable devices were already proven early in China's history, it was also deliverable via DF-3.

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[King ZhaoXiang]

air deliverable devices were already proven early in China's history, it was also deliverable via DF-3.

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I always thought that China had plenty of Pu and U to make more than 3000 warheads depending on yield.