China Geopolitical News Thread

[Brumby]

Then why do people criticize China being a part of any UN human rights issue? Maybe because of history? You can't have it both ways. That's why the British can be held accountable for history because they lie about Hong Kong. Did you ask Janiz to show proof? No.

What exactly are we discussing now as we are seriously off topic? You obviously have grievances but I am not the one that will be providing satisfaction because I have no intention of defending or justifying what others might have said about China.

 

[AssassinsMace]

What exactly are we discussing now as we are seriously off topic? You obviously have grievances but I am not the one that will be providing satisfaction because I have no intention of defending or justifying what others might have said about China.

You're the one asking for proof. I asked for proof from Janiz on the statement he made about China spending billions in the Western press on spreading propaganda to which then you defended Janiz from challenges to his post. You then posted...

The point being a topic of conversation should be on the merits, reasoning or what have you rather than it constantly degenerating into some sort of western conspiracy or PR against China.

Since when is joking okay in discussions when you demand no degenerate conversations in here? It is a serious issue of credibility when the British cry for democracy in Hong Kong when they never gave any themselves. Of course you want history to be ignored because it indicts the British. Just like those that point that China has no credibility judging human rights issues, the British have no credibility judging what's happening in Hong Kong.

 

[xiabonan]

That's exactly the mainstream sentiment here in China. Most people think that the central government is too soft and way too lenient to these Hong Kongnese and should leave them selft-destructing while Shanghai and other places completely replace Hong Kong as the whatever hub it has been (mainly because of the mainland). Alas, as always, if that happens, the average and the poor will be the ones to suffer.

This is so damn true.

It I were the central government, this is what I will do regarding HK:

1, Trim down the Basic Law, only keep the part about sovereignty.

2, Withdraw the PLA stationed at HK.

3, Grant full immediate democratic election to HK. You want to vote whoever you like? Sure no problem.

4, You don't like mainland women to give birth in HK right? Sure I'll ban that.

5, You don't like mainland tourists flooding your streets and "pushing up prices" right? Sure I'll restrict the number of tourists to as low as it doesn't make any impact at all.

6, Water, Food, Electricity will have to be charged at higher than market price. Otherwise HK can import these from elsewhere if they think the price is too high.

7, Move RMB off-shore clearing to Singapore. Or the new economic zone at Shanghai. We won't bother you any more.

Let HK be an experimental field for democracy. Let's see what else HKers will complain. Let's see what true democracy will bring to HK.

Taiwan is waiting for you guys on the path called "stagnation".

 

[Brumby]

You're the one asking for proof. I asked for proof from Janiz on the statement he made about China spending billions in the Western press on spreading propaganda to which then you defended Janiz from challenges to his post. You then posted....

I had already previously stated that it was my view that Janiz's statement was made in jest. If you are sufficiently offended then you should take the matter up with the person directly. However I suggest that you let it go as continuous labouring on a one liner can be seen to be pettiness. Additionally, that comment if I remember correctly is not even connected to our current topic of conversation.

Regarding the issue of proof I stand corrected if I had made such a statement because it is unlikely the case under the proper context simply because in any typical exchange of views, the burden to proof something is high and would be unreasonable. What I believe I would have stated is for someone to make a case which is typically laying the premises for the assertions rather than just making claims without warrant.

Since when is joking okay in discussions when you demand no degenerate conversations in here?

Firstly no one can make demand on this Forum and certainly not me. What I have felt frustrated about and commented upon is that conversations degenerate into default position of media conspiracy without attempting to actually defend assertions. This in my view is not displaying intellectual honesty.

It is a serious issue of credibility when the British cry for democracy in Hong Kong when they never gave any themselves. Of course you want history to be ignored because it indicts the British. Just like those that point that China has no credibility judging human rights issues, the British have no credibility judging what's happening in Hong Kong.

These are all assertions that were not even in the picture concerning the issue of universal suffrage which was the topic of discussion. You are attempting to tie me into a narrative that suits your agenda.

 

[solarz]

That's exactly the mainstream sentiment here in China. Most people think that the central government is too soft and way too lenient to these Hong Kongnese and should leave them selft-destructing while Shanghai and other places completely replace Hong Kong as the whatever hub it has been (mainly because of the mainland). Alas, as always, if that happens, the average and the poor will be the ones to suffer.

Heck yeah, being a Shanghaier, I totally support that idea!

No offense to any HKer forumites on here, but HKers as a whole have a totally over-inflated opinion of themselves. While I can't exactly blame them for that, since Shanghaiers and Beijingers are pretty much guilty of the same thing, at least we're not actively trying to undermine our own economy!

Seriously, with all the stories I hear on the media about HK attitudes to Mainland tourists, it really puts me off from visiting the city. Even though Shanghaiers can also be condescending toward outsiders, we would never call them "locusts" or blame them for lowering our living standards. In fact, if HK's economy ever tanks, you're all welcome to come to Shanghai!

 

[Hytenxic]

I'm from Hong Kong myself and I was under the impression that Shanghai is already the economic center or am I wrong? I read that somewhere Hong Kong has dropped to 6th in competitiveness.

 

[solarz]

I'm from Hong Kong myself and I was under the impression that Shanghai is already the economic center or am I wrong? I read that somewhere Hong Kong has dropped to 6th in competitiveness.

Well, rankings are rather ephemeral. Suffice it to say that both HK and Shanghai are economic powerhouses.

 

[xiabonan]

I'm from Hong Kong myself and I was under the impression that Shanghai is already the economic center or am I wrong? I read that somewhere Hong Kong has dropped to 6th in competitiveness.

If some people in HK continue to play this kind stupid democracy games, it will do nothing but hard to HK's economic competitiveness.

Man you have no idea how happy Singaporeans are seeing HK basically self-destructs.

Every opportunity lost for HK might be one gained for SG.

HK is not just competing with Shanghai.

 

[xiabonan]

Sometimes, some people, just got too caught up with this whole democracy thing.

Taiwan is another example.

It's fine you don't want to sign economic cooperation agreements. It's fine you fear you'll "over depend" on us. It's fine you resist doing business with us and trade with us.

There are a whole bunch of countries waiting in line to take up that opportunity.

Abe wants to be stubborn and continue your nonsense with visiting the shrine?

We'll sign a FTA with South Korea.

SK's economy grew by 3.6% while Japan's contracted by 6.8% in the second quarter of 2014.

Taiwan fears being too dependent on us?

But you already are.

Mainland China is Taiwan's largest exporter and importer, and trade with the mainland as a percentage of Taiwan's GDP is still increasing.

HK insist on those democracy stuff? Singapore is waiting in line to take up the opportunity.

According to the latest reports HK's global competitiveness dropped again and investors' confidence also dipped due to the political movements, while Singapore's competitiveness remained a high second spot globally, due in part to her highly stable political environment.

The Philippines wants to fight over SCS? We'll do business with Malaysia and Indonesia.

There are always the loud and stubborn ones, and there are always the quiet and pragmatic ones.

We shall see who smiles to the last.

I remember vividly when I attended a talk given by a professor of economics at the Nanyang Technological University, he said this, " China's economic growth and growing influence in the region is like enormous ocean waves, you either stand on the beach trying to stop the wave and get smashed, or you pick up your surfboard and ride on the waves to scale new heights."

 

[Engineer]

You are suggesting it is a conditional precedent clause. Let's take this deeper. What conditions?

I need not to suggest anything, neither do we have to go deeper since the Basic Law is pretty clear cut about this already:

...universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee...