China Flanker thread

[rhino123]

Thanks crobato
Wow 300/350 is a lot of Flankers and to me the Flanker is the best fighter in the world beside the F-22.

I would have to disagree here. Flanker, by these I meant the Su-27 is an old technology. I would look to the French's Rafale, or European's Eurofighters to be more modern and perhaps better fighters. Hack... even the newer F-15 will give the Su-27 hell of a time.

If you meant Su-30MK2... hmm... then it will be a tough fight here.

 

[nonpilot]

I kind of meant the later model Su-30 models sorry I was not clear. I thought correct me if I'm wrong that sort of like an F-15C the Su-30 Flanker has the power, speed to force the issue or fight. I don't know much about modern air combat if you could explain a little I like to learn more. Stuff like getting into position to take the first shot, if both aircraft see each at say 90 miles apart who has the advantage, these types of questions and more are the ones I like to learn about. Thanks in advance if you can help, nonpilot

rhino were you a member of combat edge?

I would have to disagree here. Flanker, by these I meant the Su-27 is an old technology. I would look to the French's Rafale, or European's Eurofighters to be more modern and perhaps better fighters. Hack... even the newer F-15 will give the Su-27 hell of a time.

If you meant Su-30MK2... hmm... then it will be a tough fight here.

 

[crobato]

China does not have the kind of Su-30 India has. China's Su-30s, about a hundred of them, are more like the basic Flanker upgraded to multirole capability to deliver guided missiles and munitions against ground and sea targets.

The rest are Su-27SK, UBK and J-11s are pretty much like the basic Su-27SK. Many of these planes are upgraded to use the R-77 through a modification in the radar.

A lot of people seem to diss on the base Su-27 for being primitive, but don't underestimate it. It is a very tough opponent. For example, IRST and HMS gives it capabilities beyond many more modern fighters. India's Su-30K performed remarkably well in exercises, and that's not much more than an Su-27UBK with a refueling probe.

 

[kunmingren]

so does that mean chinese j-11 doesnt have areial refueling capability?

just a quick question, beside a few specical j-8, what other chinese plane can be refueled in air?

 

[crobato]

so does that mean chinese j-11 doesnt have areial refueling capability?

just a quick question, beside a few specical j-8, what other chinese plane can be refueled in air?

Only the Su-30 can refuel on the air, but not the Su-27 and J-11. However, the internal fuel volume of the Flanker is so high, you don't need to refuel unless for very very long missions.

J-8IIs need to refuel more often as they suck up gas rather bad. Compared to modern turbofan fighters, J-8IIs are less than fuel efficient.

 

[tphuang]

so does that mean chinese j-11 doesnt have areial refueling capability?

just a quick question, beside a few specical j-8, what other chinese plane can be refueled in air?

J-10 has a retractable IFR and JF-17 could have it. I suppose JH-7A will also get it in the future.

This sounds to me more like the PERO phase array upgrade. What they will do to the radar is not to replace the radar completely, but change the antenna from the twist cassegrain at present, to a phase array. This is probably a lot more painless.

I thought about that too, but a while has passed since the entire pero ordeal. It's probably a new radar they want to showcase to China.
candidates:
Pero - the pro is that it's simply changing the antenna, it's phased array. What were the issues that China had against it? Cost?
Zhuk-MSE - I think this would be nice to have on something like MK2, since it will provide much better targetting against sea objects. And since it's slotted array radar, it shouldn't be that expensive.
Zhuk-MSFE - not sure if the testing have been done, but I guess the advantage is that it's most advanced Russian radar getting exported.

 

[crobato]

The IFR I have seen on pics of 1005 and 1006 J-10s look to me it's fixed, like the ones on the J-8D. They are only installed on the start of the mission.

I think Pero is the most reasonable upgrade for the MKKs and MK2s now because it offers the least amount of surgery, and being a phase array it offers a theoritical advantage over the MSA based Zhuk MSE. I doubt that China would buy something with an MSA as that would not offer any significant advantage to what they plan with the J-11B.

 

[tphuang]

The IFR I have seen on pics of 1005 and 1006 J-10s look to me it's fixed, like the ones on the J-8D. They are only installed on the start of the mission.

those ones do, but I think the retractable ones, you probably won't see them normally.

I think Pero is the most reasonable upgrade for the MKKs and MK2s now because it offers the least amount of surgery, and being a phase array it offers a theoritical advantage over the MSA based Zhuk MSE. I doubt that China would buy something with an MSA as that would not offer any significant advantage to what they plan with the J-11B.

not sure that Pero upgrade actually offers any advantage to what is planned on J-11B either. If only the antenna is changed and everything else (like the processors) remain the same, then it's still mostly using old technology.

 

[crobato]

The antenna has its own processors. While the rest of the system may not be changed, they won't need to be. They will be fed with the data from the new array and its DSPs. They may be updates to the rest of the system, but it won't be as major as completely uprooting the entire radar and fire control system.

I suppose the new antenna will greatly increase the range, the number of targets tracked, and the resolution they're being tracked.

If they're buying new Su-30s, it would be better for them to start with the latest Zhuks.

 

[crobato]

According to SOC in AFM, Janes said China was offered the Irbis as either an upgrade for the Su-30s or if China considers buying the Su-35. Kind of says a lot of things, Pero/Panda and Zhuk no longer seems to catch PLAAF interest.