China Flanker Thread II

[stannislas]

This is actually more significant than hardware upgrades but hardly gets any media attention. China can now crank out 4th/5th generation fighter aircraft pilots within a span of 3 years.

Indeed, so CJ-6 for 6-12 months? JL-10 for 6 months and J-11BS/J-10S for another 6 months? and another one and a half play simulator in the university？I thought the bachlor of aviation was like 4 years? so 12 months theory for freshman?

Also, what I learnt is there is a PLANAF program that start to train young pilot since high school use civil facilities like Cessna, so when they enter the uni, they can directly start with JL-10 or K-8, does PLAAF start this program as well?

 

[siegecrossbow]

Indeed, so CJ-6 for 6-12 months? JL-10 for 6 months and J-11BS/J-10S for another 6 months? and another one and a half play simulator in the university？I thought the bachlor of aviation was like 4 years? so 12 months theory for freshman?

Also, what I learnt is there is a PLANAF program that start to train young pilot since high school use civil facilities like Cessna, so when they enter the uni, they can directly start with JL-10 or K-8, does PLAAF start this program as well?

I think in some cases they are skipping JL-10 altogether. They’ve also shortened the amount of time on K-8.

 

[weig2000]

Reading a lot of your analysis the last few days, I feel like the general first principle takeaway being reinforced here is that as China attains parity in capabilities, the geography advantage between China and the US isn’t just significant, but tilts towards being decisive. And in a networked systems context where the emphasis in force structure revolves around multipliers, multiplier advantages heavily favor the local power over the forward projected power all else held equal, because whatever multiplier the forward projected power attains with a set of systems a local power that attains the same capabilities would benefit from the same multiplier but will be amplifying far bigger base factors (in such things as fire intensity, sortie rates, etc).

Aren't you just saying that the multiplier advantage is non-linear (quadratic if not exponential) function of the force structure disparity between the two sides given roughly equal capabilities? The non-linear effect is due to network effect of the networked sensors and the force structure disparity is due to the curse of geographical distance and the scarcity of deployable bases.

 

[stannislas]

I think in some cases they are skipping JL-10 altogether. They’ve also shortened the amount of time on K-8.

CJ-6 directly to J-11BS/J-10S ??? this step is way to big, most of the fly skill was actually learnt in JL-10 tbh...

I understand both PLAAF and PLANAF are trying to get rid of K-8, and there are planty of news that CJ-6 directly to JL-10 in PLAAF, but I don't think PLANAF has the luxirious to do so atm, definately be the trend though

 

[siegecrossbow]

CJ-6 directly to J-11BS/J-10S ??? this step is way to big, most of the fly skill was actually learnt in JL-10 tbh...

I understand both PLAAF and PLANAF are trying to get rid of K-8, and there are planty of news that CJ-6 directly to JL-10 in PLAAF, but I don't think PLANAF has the luxirious to do so atm, definately be the trend though

CJ-6 to K-8 and directly to J-11BS/J-10S. Based on preliminary results spending too much time on intermediate trainers like the K-8 teach pilots bad habits that they need to unlearn in supersonic fighter aircraft.

 

[stannislas]

CJ-6 to K-8 and directly to J-11BS/J-10S. Based on preliminary results spending too much time on intermediate trainers like the K-8 teach pilots bad habits that they need to unlearn in supersonic fighter aircraft.

uhmmm, i thought they are much more prefer the JL-10...

 

[Tiberium]

Actually CJ-6 to JL-9 to J-11BS, and JL-10 to J-10S.
Reason that PLAAF keep a lot of JL-9s is some flying characteristics of JL-9 is pretty similar to Flankers.

 

[stannislas]

Actually CJ-6 to JL-9 to J-11BS, and JL-10 to J-10S.
Reason that PLAAF keep a lot of JL-9s is some flying characteristics of JL-9 is pretty similar to Flankers.

? jl-9 was essentially based on mig-21? How could it flying characters like a flanker?

the biggest advantage for JL-9 is cheap and was there when Plaaf and planar was needed
- need jl-10, but engine wasn’t ready, jl-9 was there
- need a carrier version of trainer, though jl-9 can’t land on real carrier but at least provide some thing that planaf can let their trainee pilot use on land, until the recent navel version of jl-10 was ready

 

[Maikeru]

Actually CJ-6 to JL-9 to J-11BS, and JL-10 to J-10S.
Reason that PLAAF keep a lot of JL-9s is some flying characteristics of JL-9 is pretty similar to Flankers.

That makes no sense, surely twin engines trainer is a better simulator of a twin engined fighter?

 

[latenlazy]

Aren't you just saying that the multiplier advantage is non-linear (quadratic if not exponential) function of the force structure disparity between the two sides given roughly equal capabilities? The non-linear effect is due to network effect of the networked sensors and the force structure disparity is due to the curse of geographical distance and the scarcity of deployable bases.

In general terms I’m not really saying anything profound. But I think when we talk about force multipliers there’s often an implicit assumption that the US and China are multiplying the same quantity of forces, and the strategic implications are starkly different if we identify the US as employing a much smaller base factor in the multiplication equation than China is in the Asia Pacific.