China Flanker Thread II

[siegecrossbow]

If WS-10A has such lousy lifespan, I think WS-10A would not have won the national project award in 2008 and PLA will never accept it.

If J-10 needed to be fitted with Russian engine and export, PLA will not have held an open exhibition in February this year to showcase J-10 to the world and aggressively promoted it...

And finally, CCTV will not broadcast the documentary about the success of WS-10A recently if it really is so problematic and cannot be mass produced.

PLA only be open about things that work well,do well.

Just like the first shenzhou launch in 2003. They never even live telecast it. It only when they are very confident and works well. Then they will be open about it. The 2005 second launch was widely documented and live telecast given it.

Lastly, this russian military report is bullsh*t...

WS-10 is the one with the short life time problems and I believe that WS-10A is a fully capable engine (in fact the only engines used on J-11Bs are WS-10As).

 

[ReneDad]

@ ReneDad

Thanks a lot for the explanation.

You are welcome.

 

[ReneDad]

according to the russian military induestries asst. Biggest problem still the WS-10A engine,with only 500 hours life span,

If this was true, it would be the great time for Russia to blackmail China now---they can make a price of $20 million per AL-31F/FN and China will not dare to refuse.

 

[challenge]

汉和防务称歼-15航母舰载机在沈阳频繁试飞




【加拿大《汉和防务评论》7月号文章】题：歼-15舰载战斗机开始试飞综合驻北京的可靠权威情报判断，中国克隆的歼-15舰载战斗机已经于5月试飞。整个试飞活动至少需要1年以上，如果一切正常的话。


本刊之前的报道强调：歼-15在2009年9月就制造完成，同年进行了滑行、机翼折叠试验等。但是权威的消息来源表示：2009年并未试飞！这一动向可能与第二批歼-11b战斗机被海军、空军拒绝接收有关，为了谨慎起见，歼-15推迟了试飞的时间。目前的消息显示，歼-15航母舰载战斗机的试飞工作已经转移到一个段距离平台上，该平台是模仿航母飞行甲板的。


网络上公开了若干张歼-15的起飞图片，其中一张起飞图片明显看到前翼，尽管是模糊的图片，要伪造这样的模糊照片，是非常困难的。可以确信，歼-15是苏-33不折不扣的克隆版。众所周知，苏-33的前起落架为双轮设计，支架笔直，从图片上判断，歼-15同样具备了这样的特征。雷达罩的涂装有所不同，试飞期间的歼-11b的雷达罩颜色为黑色，歼-15采用灰色。这样的区分是必要的，因为雷达的机能不同，作为海军型战斗机，歼-15的雷达必须追加空对舰武器的界面。尚不清楚第一梨歼-15是否安装雷达，一般而言，没有必要！首架测试机主要用于飞挖试验。



由于苏-33采用14度滑跳起降，因此尾椎进行了短缩，歼-15完全相同。目前的结论是：中国显然通过乌克兰，不仅仅取得了t-10k试验机，而且极有可能取得了t-10k的维修图纸！完全照抄。


从黄色、浅绿色机身颜色判断，歼-15使用的复合材料大致与歼-11b、歼-11bs相同，尤其是在垂直尾翼、机翼的部分，苏-33因为是在上世纪80年代研制，1992年最后组装完成的，因此只使用极为少量的复合材料。这样看来，歼-15的空重比苏-33要轻。飞机推重比更大的结果，意味着载弹量的增加。


5月还发现在沈阳机场进行了更为频繁的歼-11b的飞行，本刊曾报道歼-11b在2009年试飞时因为发生震颤，而被空军拒绝接收。新的试飞显示：沈阳厂似乎对原来的第二批歼-11b进行了改进。歼-15试飞已经意味着：该厂对技术问题恢复了一定程度的自信。


歼-15使用何种发动机？从模糊的图片上无法看清，但是权威的消息来源说，依然使用俄式al-31f涡轮风扇发动机，这一点是完全可信的，作为新飞机，使用新发动机的风险更大。


从进口唯一的t-10k试验机，到2009年制造第一架歼-15，仅仅用不到五年时间，显示中国的克隆技术异常之高。尽管是“克隆”战斗机，如果飞机材料、雷达、航电技术达不到一定的独立技术开发的阶段，是无法克隆的。即使让美国的航空工业克隆苏-33，可能也需要相当的时间。


预计在未来五年之内，新一代的歼-11b、歼-11bs、歼-15都可能成为更加成熟的可量产战斗机，歼-15试飞的最终完成，可能在2012年左右，前提是继续使用俄式发动机。2013至2014年左右，歼-15可能进入批量生产阶段。它完全能够赶上国产航母的生产进度。

 

[Curious George]

If this was true, it would be the great time for Russia to blackmail China now---they can make a price of $20 million per AL-31F/FN and China will not dare to refuse.

Even if it were true that the WS-10A lasts only 500 hrs before overhaul, or even if it only has an overall lifespan of 500 hrs, the AL-31F itself lasts only 1000 hrs before overhaul, with an overall lifespan of 3000 hrs. So doing the math, if Russia ups the price from $3.5 million to $20 million per engine, the Chinese would be better off ordering numerous WS-10A's, as I doubt the WS-10A would cost any more than the current AL-31F price of $3.5 million. This would have the added benefit of giving the makers of the WS-10A the ability to fine tune the production process and improve the product so that over time it could match or better the AL-31F's lifespan.

 

[Spartan95]

汉和防务称歼-15航母舰载机在沈阳频繁试飞

歼-15使用何种发动机？从模糊的图片上无法看清，但是权威的消息来源说，依然使用俄式al-31f涡轮风扇发动机，这一点是完全可信的，作为新飞机，使用新发动机的风险更大。

This sentence says that J-15 is using AL-31F engine. And the reason is because this is a new aircraft, using a tested engine reduces developmental risks (as opposed to using a brand new type of engine).

Would like to hear the views of the experts on this.

 

[tphuang]

here is a more up close picture of J-15. At least it looks real to me.

 

[cloyce]

Interesting.

Now, we can spot some more details about this plane

It would be interesting see a photo from the other side of the plane so that we can see if it's provided with a cooling gate for AESA radar.

 

[bd popeye]

If tphuang says it's real..then it is.. I'd like to see a photo of this aircraft catching the arresting gear if China has any set up at an air base. I alos want to get a closer look at that landing gear to see how beefed up it may be.

 

[ZTZ99]

Another possibility is that some higher ranked communist leaders were in Shenyang for the debriefing of the project. The plane had to overfly the populous area because the pilot had to give the leaders (who were supposed at the airstrip of the factory)a better view. If there was no leaders, the plane would fly to some rural area far away from the airstrip for test so it was unlikely to be seen.

I doubt that explanation. If secrecy were a priority, they would have arranged a demonstration in some rural area and taken the leaders to that location instead. They wanted to show off this plane on purpose.