China Flanker Thread II

[supersnoop]

my feeling is that China was forced to copy and then modify the Flankers at a time when it had no other choice available.
What China did was to ensure China's own safety, by safeguarding its own airspace.
As such it is not an honorable thing to do by exporting your planes based on somebody else's IP, despite heavy modifications.
So unless Russia gives her blessing for export, China will keep her Flankers within China.

Nothing to do with “feelings” or “honour”. China was not “forced” either. Su-27 was best available fighter to purchase in the early 2000’s. Flankers were not copied, they were licensed and the technology was transferred. At some point, Chinese development in many fields progressed rapidly ahead of what Russia was willing to export (Look at Su-30MKK radar vs MKI for India). Thus modifications outside the scope of the original agreement were made, which elicited the Russian grumbling mentioned above.

Beyond that speculation, there are a few simple facts that explain why there are no exports of Chinese made Flankers.
1. Would still need Russian engines.
2. Market for expensive heavy fighter is limited to begin with, the advantage of Chinese made Flanker would be things like AESA, which would only drive the price even higher.
3. Domestic demand limits export capacity.

 

[Schwerter_]

But its derived from su33 taken from ukranian, f15 china own product but j11 and j16 are licensed products, so cant export them with out russia approval , but for f15 russia approval not required

I dont know about J16 and J11B being lisenced... IIRC China broke the contract when they aborted production of J-11A and developed J-11B

 

[Schwerter_]

Nothing to do with “feelings” or “honour”. China was not “forced” either. Su-27 was best available fighter to purchase in the early 2000’s. Flankers were not copied, they were licensed and the technology was transferred. At some point, Chinese development in many fields progressed rapidly ahead of what Russia was willing to export (Look at Su-30MKK radar vs MKI for India). Thus modifications outside the scope of the original agreement were made, which elicited the Russian grumbling mentioned above.

Beyond that speculation, there are a few simple facts that explain why there are no exports of Chinese made Flankers.
1. Would still need Russian engines.
2. Market for expensive heavy fighter is limited to begin with, the advantage of Chinese made Flanker would be things like AESA, which would only drive the price even higher.
3. Domestic demand limits export capacity.

I largely agree, however SAC produced flankers have been using WS-10 for a long time, to my knowledge only older J11A, the earliest batch of J-11B and J-15 uses russian engines, the first two because they were earlier on in the timeline and at that point WS-10 was simply too unstable, and J15 allegedly because AL-31F3 has better responce time than WS-10 and is thus more suited for carrier operations

 

[asif iqbal]

Lot 01 of 24 J-11B (1 Ftr Div 1 Regt Anshan) have AL-31F. The subsequent lots have WS-10A Taihang engines.

In the words of our fine member Franco-Russe, I miss him

 

[Deino]

...
In the words of our fine member Franco-Russe, I miss him

Me too. Does anyone know what happened to him?

Similar I miss 'crobato' who is silent too since year ... and in retrospect who is responsible for my interest in anything related to China, its aviation and the PLAAF.

 

[asif iqbal]

Me too. Does anyone know what happened to him?

Similar I miss 'crobato' who is silent too since year ... and in retrospect who is responsible for my interest in anything related to China, its aviation and the PLAAF.

I used to personal message him alot and he was a great guy definitely military and not a normal person

Actually I hope he doesnt mind me saying, he was actually a Dutch intelligence officer who watched the Soviet Union for decades he knew everything about Russia better than China serial numbers on everything Russian unbelievable

I hope he is doing well and keeping healthy last time we chatted was 2012 I think

 

[kickars]

Sorry, for posting things totally unrelated to the thread. As you guys are mentioning the past members, one can never be forgotten is Dongfeng. At the end of the day, he started sinodefence website. And we are still regularly using some of the thread he started such as Type 98/98 MBT. Hope he’s doing well.

 

[supersnoop]

I largely agree, however SAC produced flankers have been using WS-10 for a long time, to my knowledge only older J11A, the earliest batch of J-11B and J-15 uses russian engines, the first two because they were earlier on in the timeline and at that point WS-10 was simply too unstable, and J15 allegedly because AL-31F3 has better responce time than WS-10 and is thus more suited for carrier operations

My assumption with WS-10 is also that domestic demand would also outstrip supply since it needs to equip both J-10 and Flankers, and even likely J-20. Also I would imagine that buyers would be more inclined towards Al-31 since there is an existing aftersales support structure in place vs. WS-10 which only has PLA as user.

 

[by78]

It's kind of amusing that Shenyang stuck with the same green paint on the wheels as the Russian Flankers.

 

[defenceman]

It's kind of amusing that Shenyang stuck with the same green paint on the wheels as the Russian Flankers.

Hi is it normal for a plane to have this kind of tyres for landing & takeoff I mean the condition of the tyre
thank you