China Flanker Thread II

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defenceman

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b787 said:
The original plans for the Russians were to operate MiG-29Ks and Su-33s from their carriers.
The Russians operate now both aircraft, i can not tell you if they are going to operate them for 2 or 3 decades more, but you have to see what the USA did and what China did or the USSR/ Russia.

The USA developed the F-15 and F-16s for the air force, the F-14 and F-18 for the navy.

Russia did not want to develop a F-16 type aircraft, the Russians thought the F-16 was a single engine prone to more accidents, while that is true, the MiG-29 is not as cheap, it is expensive and when the Russians suffered economically they opted for the Su-27 fleet because it is only 30% more expensive but more than 50% more effective in terms of range and weapons carriage .


China did what the USAF did, but remember the F-16 is hard to navalize so is J-10 so the Chinese went for Su-33 basically making the same mistake Russia did.

The USA navy went for twin engine low-hi mix, but the high mix was expensive, the F-14 was expensive to operate, su they did what the Russians did a Hornet fleet, why? new radars and AAM can basically replace the F-14 and new SAM basically get rid of the F-14.

China did not navalize the J-10, thus like Russia went for the SU-33, the J-10 still has not reach the numbers of the F-16s, more than 4000s have been produce, thus the J-10 is more comparable to the Gripen in producibility.


The J-10 must be very capable, like MiG-29 it must beat the SU-27 in WVR combat, and armed like the Gripen can beat it, but Flankers have a very big advantage:Range and weapons carriage, thus the SU-33 was a far more logic aircraft to adapt for the Chinese, but in an aircraft carrier the Hornet type aircraft is better, you can carry more than the Su-33 or F-14s, the superbug it is a great aircraft, in reality as big as the F-14 but it is easier to operate and it did not only replace the F-14, but also the A-6s, the the prowler and the lighter Hornets Cs (the Flanker is doing something similar in the Russian air force), the MiG-29K is a twin seat, more advanced aerodynamically, got rid of the canards and is far far more cost effective plus you can deploy more than SU-33s, but the reality the Russians like the french know the Hornet size and rafale size is the ideal size for an aircraft carrier aircraft.

China will need to move into an aircraft more like the J-31 if it will operate aircraft carriers, the J-20 is too big, and a Flanker fleet is not ideal to operate a USA navy type aircraft carrier, the Flanker is doing a F-14 type job, but it is pure defensive in both the Chinese and Russian navies.

Basically you can not navalize the Flanker as the F-18, the SU-33KUB is a good example, and the Su-34 is out of the question, lighter aircraft might have less range but are easier to deploy in terms of take offs an Landings
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Hi so what should be the ideal numbers for j20 from the production line
As I believe US is having around 180 f22?
And which twin engine jet will be accompany j20 in crucial scenario
Thx
 
D

delft

Brigadier
b787 said:
and a Flanker fleet is not ideal to operate a USA navy type aircraft carrier,
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The role of Chinese aircraft carriers is much more defensive than those of USN if only because there is no threat against US territory and there is against China.
 
b787

b787

Captain
defenceman said:
Hi so what should be the ideal numbers for j20 from the production line
As I believe US is having around 180 f22?
And which twin engine jet will be accompany j20 in crucial scenario
Thx
Click to expand...
to be honest i do not know, in my opinion the J-20 is not ideal for navalization, it is too big and heavy, J-31 seems a better candidate, lighter and smaller is better, smaller is better because it means less space and more aircraft, lighter is better because take offs and landings are dependant in very low approaching speeds, in the F-14 they used VG wings, Flankers has canards, so lift is primordially what means lower speeds landings.

the Su-33 has canards, MiG-29K does not, the reason is the heavier flanker without canards can not compete with the lighter MiG-29K.

J-15 has canards, but the Chinese carrier can not carry many, this forced the Chinese to buy Su-35s up to some degree, because the Su-33 is a very limited aircraft, so continental Flankers have to patrol where the J-15 can not, i mean, 24 Su-33s/J-15s is not a very big carrier fleet, the Russian carrier can carry more MiG-29Ks than Su-33s, and the same is the Chinese carrier.The Americans carriers can carry more hornets, and the superbug is a very versatile aircraft, meaning the Su-33 is a more defensive weapon
 
b787

b787

Captain
delft said:
The role of Chinese aircraft carriers is much more defensive than those of USN if only because there is no threat against US territory and there is against China.
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no it is not that, the USA navy is older and has operated carriers since the early 20th century, China is a new comer, they lack experience, the Americans have built so many carriers that they dwarf the British, the french and Spanish or Italians. Only the Japanese were close in WWII, but they faltered.
The Flanker is the only naval heavy fighter built outside the USA, the Rafale and MiG-29 the only close competitors to the F-18C, the reality is the USA is ahead of every one in naval aviation
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys ... just back from the class-trip and even if I had not all the time to read all post, the discussion on Flankers, Fulcrums in the Russian Navy and why which one was chosen, their role in carriers is in which way related to the Chinese-Flanker-family in PLAAF/PLANAF-service ????

Deino
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Deino said:
Nice but sadly again with psed serial number.

By the way, does anyone at least know from what base or unit "zhang81zhang" takes his pictures ?
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Not sure, I think it's a variety of bases. Regardless, take everything zhang says with a pinch of salt because he's been known to spread false rumours as pranks. The previous rumour of J-20 beating 3rd-gen fighters 10:0 was a false rumour spread by him and as a result, his weibo account got permanently banned. So from now on, only take his words seriously if pupu verifies it.
 
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