China Flanker Thread II

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Deino

Deino

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Yes, that's in fact the WS-10H but it's not visible in these images !

Of note ... all these images were from late 2012 !

Deino
 

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  • J-15S maiden flight 3.11.12 - 4 larger.jpg
    J-15S maiden flight 3.11.12 - 4 larger.jpg
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Franklin

Captain
It is said in varius sources on the internet that the J-16 has already entered service this year. I don't think that's correct and i was expecting it to happen somewhere in 2015 or 2016. Does any one here have further information about this ?
 
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chuck731

Banned Idiot
plawolf said:
The basic Flanker airframe was already blessed with enormous internal fuel loads and outstanding range and endurance. The J15 is likely to have also had additional fuel storing measures like wet vertical stabilisers that were employed on MKKs.

It just seems unlikely that the PLAAF would bother adding drop tank capability to the J15 just to add drop tanks since they never bothered with any other Flanker variant they have been operating for the last two decades, and neither have the Russians.

In addition, without cats, the big limiting factor for J15s when it comes to range and payload is going to be MTOW possible with the ski jump, as such, adding drop tanks to the J15 seems singularly pointless.

Now, to be sure, the wet pylon for a buddy refuelling pod would also allow a J15 to hang a drop tank, and a tanker J15 may well want to hang as many drop tanks as they can take off with to maximise fuel available for other birds, so it is entirely possible some of the underwing pylons are also rigged for drop tanks, and we may even one day see J15s tank off with big tanks under their wings and a refuelling pod between the nacelles.

On top of all that, you also have to consider that with the kinds of time pressure SAC must surely be under to get the J15 certified and into production, even if the Liaoning had cats, you would really not expect SAC to be wasting time with drop tank integration at this early stage when such things could easily be left to later in the plane's development cycle and the capacity can be retrofitted to prototype and LRP examples at a later date.

Finally, having a tanker option available from the offset would give the PLANAF pilots an invaluable safety net for when they are operating out at sea, especially when the pilots are new and still learning the ropes of carrier aviation ops. Because if plans go out the window and a J15 is coming home with bingo fuel, being able to send up a tanker to top him up would make a world of difference.

Even if the J15 had enough fuel to get back to the carrier without a top up, having that little extra fuel in the tanks would take the pressure right off of the pilot as he knows he can have a few passes and it won't be a problem, whereas if he was flying on fumes, he may be too desperate to land the first time, and tries to catch the wire when he should have waved off, and that's when bad accidents can happen.

In summary, while it is possible that SAC added drop tank capability for the sake of giving the J15 drop tanks, it just seems very unlikely IMO. Far more likely is that the PLAN fully recognised the limitations the ski jump would place on J15 operations from their own research and from the Russians' operational experience with Su33s, and made buddy refuelling a high priority feature for the J15 so that the planes can utilise their full potential from the get go.
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A refueling capability is worth all the planes Liaoning can put into the air in an emergency, so it should be a top priority.

Imagine a squadron of J-15 returning from a long range operational mission, and one of them crashes on landing, starts a fire and obstructs the Liaoning's landing area. The rest of the squadron still in air would be in trouble. If the Chinese operates Liaoning only in chinese coastal waters then they can divert to a land field. But if the carrier is more than 200 NM from any land base the rest of the J-15s would have to ditch, unless Liaoning can launch something from her undamaged foredeck area to refuel the J-15s still in pattern, so the J-15 can keep on orbiting, while the fire is put out, wreckage pushed aside and capacity to receive landing aircraft restored aboard the Liaoning; or so the J-15 in pattern could fly further to reach the closest alternate landing site.
 
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Engineer

Engineer

Major
J-11B with WS-10.
bbKDsoK.jpg

Tags: CCTV; China; Flanker; Imgur; J-11B with WS-10; exercise;

The video where the screen shot came from can be found
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S

Skywatcher

Captain
siegecrossbow said:
It'll be a big day when it takes off from Liaoning.
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The big problem I imagine isn't with the WS-10H, but getting enough PLANAF personnel qualified to handle the WS-10H on the Liaoning.

As far as I know, there's only one J-11B regiment in the PLANAF and that was raised in... 2009, 2010?

While the PLANAF has quite an experience base with the AL-31 via the Su-30s.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Skywatcher said:
The big problem I imagine isn't with the WS-10H, but getting enough PLANAF personnel qualified to handle the WS-10H on the Liaoning.

As far as I know, there's only one J-11B regiment in the PLANAF and that was raised in... 2009, 2010?

While the PLANAF has quite an experience base with the AL-31 via the Su-30s.
Click to expand...
That is VERY old information. I think it's more like 5 regiments of J-11Bs now.
 
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