China Flanker Thread II

[kwaigonegin]

Actually the YF-23 has a smaller weapons bay, and the reduced surface area of the V-tail made it less agile, and as I stated the F-22 is quite capable air to ground, and far less likely to be interdicted by air or surface opposition. That is drivel to you, but as the AFB coming home is very high on my mission priority list. So stop your whining and educate yourself, the YF-23 lost out to the F-22 because the F-22 is a better airplane, period. Air Superiority is the primary mission of the Raptor, but a deep surgical strike is also on the A list of its capablities, think about it!

I have to respectfully disagree.. the YF-23 (on paper anyway) has more impressive stats. The ONLY thing I can think off where the Raptor is more superior in is in low speed handling. Everything else the 23 flat out wins..
To be honest here I think Lockheed won out because of politics and also because of past 'history' with Northrop.. at that time Northrop wasn't doing so good with the B-2, while Lockheed Martin was doing well with the F-117. Northrop's B-2 bomber was late and suffering cost overruns, Lockheed had developed the F-117 Stealth Fighter on time and under budget, which made the pencil pushers favor Lockheed. Northrop felt the loss greatly, because it didn't have enough experience with fighters.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Actually the YF-23 has a smaller weapons bay, and the reduced surface area of the V-tail made it less agile, and as I stated the F-22 is quite capable air to ground, and far less likely to be interdicted by air or surface opposition. That is drivel to you, but as the AFB coming home is very high on my mission priority list. So stop your whining and educate yourself, the YF-23 lost out to the F-22 because the F-22 is a better airplane, period. Air Superiority is the primary mission of the Raptor, but a deep surgical strike is also on the A list of its capablities, think about it!

Off-course the AF will say that. They SELECTED the YF-22, they have to defend their selection to the Tax-payer unless they are willing to back track. Off-course if you ask "Northrop-Grumman/McDonnell Douglas" team they will say otherwise, especially supercruise, Radar & IR stealth. Both YF-22 & YF-23 met the ATF requirements, but selection at the ATF competition does not mean that it was the technically superior plane. Or if you are so sure, kindly show us the official "CLASSIFIED" data about ATF competition that shows the YF-22 was faster and stealthier than YF-23! The officially stated major advantages of the YF-22 was that it was cheaper to produce, the USAF was confident of timely & on budget delivery compared to the YF-23 team plus commonality with the later CANCELLED N-ATF

. Also, YF-22 could reach very high AoA because of its TVC.

PS: And since I have gone way off-topic and the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

might shoot me down or send me on a vacation,

this my last post on this issue

 

[Air Force Brat]

I have to respectfully disagree.. the YF-23 (on paper anyway) has more impressive stats. The ONLY thing I can think off where the Raptor is more superior in is in low speed handling. Everything else the 23 flat out wins..
To be honest here I think Lockheed won out because of politics and also because of past 'history' with Northrop.. at that time Northrop wasn't doing so good with the B-2, while Lockheed Martin was doing well with the F-117. Northrop's B-2 bomber was late and suffering cost overruns, Lockheed had developed the F-117 Stealth Fighter on time and under budget, which made the pencil pushers favor Lockheed. Northrop felt the loss greatly, because it didn't have enough experience with fighters.

Thank you kwaigonegin, as I stated the F-22 had a larger weapons bay and that, along with the supermanueverability provided by the conventional configuration and TVC was the game changer. While the YF-23 is very cool, "I have it on flight sim X", and the speed was amazing, the F-22 was more of a finished product, ready to bring up to speed and put into production. They are both lovely airplanes, much like the Flanker in planform, and like the Flanker, the F-22 is awesome in manueverability, and the kill ratio against 4th gen aircraft is incredible, although as I recall the YF-23 also edged the F-22 slightly in the stealth regime. I do get it, the Headmaster loves the YF-23, one of those "wonky engineer" things I guess

 

[Air Force Brat]

Off-course -----------Or if you are so sure, kindly show us the official "CLASSIFIED" data about ATF competition that shows the YF-22 was faster and stealthier than YF-23!. Also, YF-22 could reach very high AoA because of its TVC.

PS: And since I have gone way off-topic and the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

might shoot me down or send me on a vacation,

this my last post on this issue

Off course-------why yes I believe you are my boy! And yes I could show you--------- but then I'd have to kill you! Nah! I'll just let the fat pilot do it! Check 6 Warpie he's on your tail. No offense Jr. I just wanted to pull your chain a little, and yes I do love the YF-23 as well, but the F-22 like the Flanker family is supermanueverable and that was very high on the Air Forces priority, and remains extremely high on mine as well. The Flanker remains a very viable aircraft even in the current environment, and will likely continue to be quite capable. The Flanker benefits greatly from TVC as well if agility is your gig, I NEVER said the YF-22 was faster or stealthier, just better, and the USAF agrees, why would you want to argue with that?

 

[A.Man]

Don't know when this photo was taken

 

[ludasmatyi]

An interesting one. Waiting for the HD version.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 6763
An interesting one. Waiting for the HD version.

Any hint, why it is so special ??

For me it looks like an - besides that grey part on the tail - usual TH-powered Flanker ! Not sure if a B or BS however ... or a painted J-16 !

Deino

 

[drunkmunky]

Any hint, why it is so special ??

For me it looks like an - besides that grey part on the tail - usual TH-powered Flanker ! Not sure if a B or BS however ... or a painted J-16 !

Deino

I think he is highlighting what appears to be a silver strip attached to both vertical stabilizers. From my experience in formula 1, I believe that those are sensors to calculate flow.

 

[no_name]

Is this J-16?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Here are some awesome shots from the ground of Chinese Flankers flying over Tibet. Clean air does a picture good.