China Flanker Thread II

[hbogyt]

I think the JJ as in JJ-6 stands for "JianJiao", or fighter-trainer.

 

[SteelBird]

I came across an article on qianlong.com a few days ago, but maybe it's still the new year days that I'm too lazy to do the translation. Maybe I'll come back to translate it after a few days.

It said the Chinese J-11B with EOTS (I think it might stands for "Electric Optical Tracking System") can track and attack F-22 at a maximum range up to 42km. Now, I'll like to see comments from you guys how credible this claim is before I'll make a translation on that article.

 

[escobar]

not credible

 

[tphuang]

from the first division, pictures of J-11B. You can identify them as the ones with the black nose. You may also have noticed that not all of them are J-11Bs, so it looks like SAC is so slow that it still hasn't produced enough J-11B for even 1 regiment. You can also clearly see the new holographic HUD and IRST on J-11B.

 

[crobato]

I only saw a nose that seems like the older J-11. Its probable they have not transferred them out completely yet, or the plane is being used for training or comparison. If the regiment got air time on CCTV, its likely the transformation and conversion has been certified.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

from the first division, pictures of J-11B. You can identify them as the ones with the black nose. You may also have noticed that not all of them are J-11Bs, so it looks like SAC is so slow that it still hasn't produced enough J-11B for even 1 regiment. You can also clearly see the new holographic HUD and IRST on J-11B.

Why is production of the J-11B going so sluggishly do you think? Its been nearly two years since the J-11B was publicly acknowledged bythe PLAAF yet Shenyang cannot produce enough in nearly two years to equip even one regiment entirely? This can't possibly be considered 'on schedule' could it?

 

[crobato]

Back at the heyday of the J-11 production, the rate was like at the most two planes a month. So a new J-11 inaugurates, with 24 planes, around the rate of about one to 1 to 1-1/2 years. Its a fairly complex aircraft to build. If you want to rush building them like the Soviet Union did which at the most did 100 planes a year, the build quality would be horrendous.

There may still be tests and trials going on as the plane is integrated into first ever regiment. So naturally, there will be ongoing changes to the plane as each example is rolled out.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Back at the heyday of the J-11 production, the rate was like at the most two planes a month. So a new J-11 inaugurates, with 24 planes, around the rate of about one to 1 to 1-1/2 years. Its a fairly complex aircraft to build. If you want to rush building them like the Soviet Union did which at the most did 100 planes a year, the build quality would be horrendous.

There may still be tests and trials going on as the plane is integrated into first ever regiment. So naturally, there will be ongoing changes to the plane as each example is rolled out.

Indeed, the J-10 for example was only introduced into PLAAF service in 2003 and six years later we have ~140 of them. But still, thats around 22-23 per year although I assume the production pace was accelerated as the years went on.

 

[crobato]

Producing a modern fighter and its quality requirements is very difficult. Compare the rate of how other fighters are produced in other countries. The Su-30MKKs supplied by Russia weren't exactly made in a fast clip either and in fact, the rate is comparable to around 1-2 aircraft a month as well.

One reason why production is slow is the electron beam welding which you need to weld Titanium to Aluminum alloys. Back before the CDF was renovated, someone posted that he worked in an electron beam welding facility near Beijing and they're only able to finish one airframe per month. He mentioned there is a second facility that also does electron beam welding. So at most two airframes are made per month, but if the other facility has to do J-10 production, becomes something else. It depends on the number of EBW facilities that are around China capable of working on airframes, and to what degree of contracts they have with the commercial aviation sector as well.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Producing a modern fighter and its quality requirements is very difficult. Compare the rate of how other fighters are produced in other countries. The Su-30MKKs supplied by Russia weren't exactly made in a fast clip either and in fact, the rate is comparable to around 1-2 aircraft a month as well.

One reason why production is slow is the electron beam welding which you need to weld Titanium to Aluminum alloys. Back before the CDF was renovated, someone posted that he worked in an electron beam welding facility near Beijing and they're only able to finish one airframe per month. He mentioned there is a second facility that also does electron beam welding. So at most two airframes are made per month, but if the other facility has to do J-10 production, becomes something else. It depends on the number of EBW facilities that are around China capable of working on airframes, and to what degree of contracts they have with the commercial aviation sector as well.

Ah, well that explains it, thanks crobato, I knew it was no walk in the park to produce a fighter aircraft but I did not know there was so much competition for facilities between civilian and military purpose airframe construction