I got me convinced. yea, its j-15.
By the way, we can see the difference betwen the PLANAF colours and russian navy colours.
I prefer the PLANAF colours. More effective. Those russian colours wont disguise it in the sky.
China Flanker Thread II
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I got me convinced. yea, its j-15.
By the way, we can see the difference betwen the PLANAF colours and russian navy colours.
I prefer the PLANAF colours. More effective. Those russian colours wont disguise it in the sky.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
That's just propaganda nonsense.
The only wars that truly test a military to the point where they become materially better after are long, bloody, hard wars fought against near-peers over a long time. Examples where this has happened are Korea, Vietnam, and WWII. Those are also extremely costly and destructive wars, that arguably does as much harm as good to a nation.
Even looking at your list reveal that your theory is wrong. The Korean war, the US Army just fought WWII and help defeated Germany and Japan and Italy a short few years before, but their forces were wholly outclassed by the North Koreans to start with, and then soundly outfought by the Chinese even after they had time to get their act together and bring their A game.
The first Gulf War, the US has not fought a serious war since Vietnam, Iraq just finished a bloody and protracted war with Iran. Based on your theory, The Iraqis should have had the edge. History tells a very different story.
Now we look at recent times, how has the USAF or USN been tested in Iraq or Afghanistan? Do you think the last decade they spent there has materially improved their ability to take on a near-peer compared to if they were not 'fighting'? You think their pilots put in more hours training for BVR combat and doing mock dogfights in that time then if they were home? Do you think USN crews spent more time doing ASW training and AA training while on duty in the Gulf compared to if they were not actively deployed?
When you fight such a hopelessly outmatch enemy, you only gain experience in how to best beat up on someone who cannot fight back. That's like saying having soundly trump a load of kindergarden kid's football teams will give you experience when you step onto the pitch against a Premiership side, to use you footballing analogy. You may well do well against a professional side, but that's because of the training your team put in, not from your 'experience' against poor opposition.
Weren't the PVA themselves also pretty experienced? Full of people having fought Japan, Nationalists, or whoever?
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
It is getting interesting by the minute It is Official now GT splash it on the front page courtesy of Xinhui from CDF. Preserial production It is
New shipborne navy jet fighter makes waves among analysts
* Source: Global Times
* [02:36 April 25 2011]
* Comments
Unofficially dubbed the J-15, the new People's Liberation Army navy's "flying shark" features enlarged folding wings, twin nose wheels and an arresting hook for use on China's first aircraft carrier. Photo: Courtesy of netizen Zhang Xinliang
By Xu Tianran
Photos of a domestic-made shipborne J-15 heavy fighter were released on Sunday afternoon on Internet defense forums, prompting many military observers to coo about China's aircraft carrier capacity.
"Heavy shipborne fighters will boost the aircraft carrier fleet's air defense capability and enhance the fleet's strike ability," said Lan Yun, editor of the Modern Ships, a Beijing-based magazine following the latest developments in warships and defense equipment.
"They can carry many air-to-air missiles or air-to-surface missiles and other kinds of airborne munitions," Lan told the Global Times. "And they have the benefit of long combat radius."
The fighters are to be stationed onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier, which is under renovation in Dalian, according to defense media. The giant ship has had radars and electronic warfare equipment installed, the Canada-based Kanwa Daily News reported.
on Sunday's photos of the fighter were taken outside the airfield of the No. 112 Factory of Shenyang Aircraft Industry Corporation, a company of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), and were uploaded onto the cjdby.net and ****.cn military forums after 1:30 pm on Sunday.
Videos and smaller photos showing the fighter flying over Shenyang had been circulating on the Internet since June. This time the fighter was seen with a standard naval paint scheme, according to photos released on Sunday.
The fighter has distinctive features that enable it to operate on an aircraft carrier, such as folding wings and strengthened landing gear, according to the Chinese Military Aviation (CMA).
Missile launch rails and wide-angle holographic Head Up Display (HUD) clearly indicated that the fighter is equipped with domestic sensors, avionics and weapon systems, the website reported, just like later models of the Shenyang J-11 fighter. The fighter dubbed J-15 is based on a Russian Su-33 in terms of structural configuration, it also said.
The Russian Ria Novosti news quoted a Russian military analyst saying that China's J-15 is inferior to the Russian aircraft.
Lan Yun refuted the claim.
"The sensors, avionics and missiles of the Su-33 are already obsolete," Lan said, adding that the Chinese airborne electronics could offer more advanced technologies.
The first prototype J-15 was believed to have made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, a month before the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, according to the Russian Ria Novosti news.
Lin Zuoming, AVIC general manager, published a poem in the China Aviation News newspaper one day later, celebrating the "breakthrough of scientific research."
on Sunday's photos came at about the same time as foreign media quoted a Chinese blogger claiming a Vertical/Short Take-Off and Landing (V/STOL) shipborne fighter for the Varyag is conducting flight tests in the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, the US-based Defense News. The foreign reports were dismissed by an AVIC spokesman as pure speculation on April 18.
New shipborne navy jet fighter makes waves among analysts
* Source: Global Times
* [02:36 April 25 2011]
* Comments
Unofficially dubbed the J-15, the new People's Liberation Army navy's "flying shark" features enlarged folding wings, twin nose wheels and an arresting hook for use on China's first aircraft carrier. Photo: Courtesy of netizen Zhang Xinliang
By Xu Tianran
Photos of a domestic-made shipborne J-15 heavy fighter were released on Sunday afternoon on Internet defense forums, prompting many military observers to coo about China's aircraft carrier capacity.
"Heavy shipborne fighters will boost the aircraft carrier fleet's air defense capability and enhance the fleet's strike ability," said Lan Yun, editor of the Modern Ships, a Beijing-based magazine following the latest developments in warships and defense equipment.
"They can carry many air-to-air missiles or air-to-surface missiles and other kinds of airborne munitions," Lan told the Global Times. "And they have the benefit of long combat radius."
The fighters are to be stationed onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier, which is under renovation in Dalian, according to defense media. The giant ship has had radars and electronic warfare equipment installed, the Canada-based Kanwa Daily News reported.
on Sunday's photos of the fighter were taken outside the airfield of the No. 112 Factory of Shenyang Aircraft Industry Corporation, a company of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), and were uploaded onto the cjdby.net and ****.cn military forums after 1:30 pm on Sunday.
Videos and smaller photos showing the fighter flying over Shenyang had been circulating on the Internet since June. This time the fighter was seen with a standard naval paint scheme, according to photos released on Sunday.
The fighter has distinctive features that enable it to operate on an aircraft carrier, such as folding wings and strengthened landing gear, according to the Chinese Military Aviation (CMA).
Missile launch rails and wide-angle holographic Head Up Display (HUD) clearly indicated that the fighter is equipped with domestic sensors, avionics and weapon systems, the website reported, just like later models of the Shenyang J-11 fighter. The fighter dubbed J-15 is based on a Russian Su-33 in terms of structural configuration, it also said.
The Russian Ria Novosti news quoted a Russian military analyst saying that China's J-15 is inferior to the Russian aircraft.
Lan Yun refuted the claim.
"The sensors, avionics and missiles of the Su-33 are already obsolete," Lan said, adding that the Chinese airborne electronics could offer more advanced technologies.
The first prototype J-15 was believed to have made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, a month before the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, according to the Russian Ria Novosti news.
Lin Zuoming, AVIC general manager, published a poem in the China Aviation News newspaper one day later, celebrating the "breakthrough of scientific research."
on Sunday's photos came at about the same time as foreign media quoted a Chinese blogger claiming a Vertical/Short Take-Off and Landing (V/STOL) shipborne fighter for the Varyag is conducting flight tests in the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, the US-based Defense News. The foreign reports were dismissed by an AVIC spokesman as pure speculation on April 18.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Yes, but from fighting extremely strong enemies.
My point is not that battle experience is irrelevant, merely that the kind of battle experience that is really valuable enough to make a material difference are the kind learnt from fighting at the very least near-pear opponents for a prolonged period.
However, in wars when the two sides are evenly matched, the damage done is often far greater than any benefit gained.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I think it is quite strange that SAC has opted to navalize a single seater Flanker.
I would have expected them to have produced a twin seater first, to help speed up training, as the Varyag won't be ready for operations for some time after it has been launched, so there is little rush in having combat optimized fighters ready for her as soon as she is launched.
I would have expected the J15 prototype is a one-off or for limited serial production aircraft to test out the new naval design, and for the first batch of planes delivered to be twin seaters. These could double up as trainers and striker aircraft, so that would justify a largeish order, especially if the PLAN is also building indigenous carriers down South.
That way, the pilots could train a lot faster on twin seaters, so when the second batch of J15s (being the first serial production single seaters) would have trained up pilots to fly them from the start.
That would be safer, and would help reduce the shake down time for the Varyag so she would be ready for deployment sooner if required, and the only reason that I can see for the PLAN to not do it that way is if SAC is really so bad that they can only do a copy and paste job with the Su33 prototype the obtained, and do not even have the confidence to start off with a twin seater without having something to copy off.
I cannot help but think that people view that fighting wars makes US stronger and is 'valuable for gaining experience' partly because the US has not fought a war which has caused great distruction and carnage witnessed on her own soil since the civil war.
Would china want to fight another war similar to the sino-japanese war, or the civil war, or the korean war? One must be insane to think so.
Would china want to fight another war similar to the sino-japanese war, or the civil war, or the korean war? One must be insane to think so.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
I thought they will train on JJF9 H(hai) that we saw last year . Certainly they can use it for LIFT I don't know about AJT. Didn't US train on T45 goshawk trainer?
A modified JL-9 dedicated for training pilots in takeoff and landing on a carrier deck (land-based simulated?) made its maiden flight in 2009. This variant (JL-9J?) features strengthened landing gears and an arresting hook and is expected to support the carrier based J-15 fighter. It also features a taller tailfin housing additional ECM equipment on the top and offering more stability during the high AOA landing. Due to the installation of arresting hook the twin ventral stabilizing fins were removed.
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