China demographics thread.

[manqiangrexue]

It is completely different. Objective truth exists. China has not provably killed millions both on purpose and for no reason in the past 20 years. China has led one of the greatest expansions of prosperity and declines in poverty not just in China but worldwide. Entire industries owe their existence to China.

An objective view would congratulate China on these achievements. The fact that the opposite occurs is due to state sponsored hatred and bias.

There is no objective world. Each part of the world lives in its own truths and we all take them to be objective. We know that China has fostered diversity and eradicated poverty while Americans slaughtered people for their land and Israelis are currently committing genocide in Gaza. Audiences of Western media know the objective truth to be that China genocides Uighurs and holds its entire population in oppression while the West liberates Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya. If you argue from this perspective, you will always face an endless black knight vs white knight argument.

But to me, that they embrace traitors, make their mound by the traitors they bribe, while we value self-respect and wholesomeness, deriding the disloyal, is a fundamental difference that makes us better.

It is not a virtue to parrot state sponsored hatred and bias, just like it is not a virtue for a German to agree with Adolf Hitler in 1935. When the Nazi propaganda told Germans to reject the evidence of their eyes and ears and listen to the regime, those who obeyed were not the courageous ones.

And when they emigrated, the world saw them as loser Krauts all the same. They carried with them the aura of a defeated nation all the same. If they had put all of their efforts in and they had won, only then would they be respected and admired for their ingenuity and prowess.

I do not sympathize with Nazis by any means, but since this is the example you brought up, I have to use it to show that when you fight for the right team (as determined by genetics), you stand a chance of winning, only a chance. But when you fight for the opposing team, you lose no matter what.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

There is no objective world. Each part of the world lives in its own truths and we all take them to be objective. We know that China has fostered diversity and eradicated poverty while Americans slaughtered people for their land and Israelis are currently committing genocide in Gaza. Audiences of Western media know the objective truth to be that China genocides Uighurs and holds its entire population in oppression while the West liberates Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya. If you argue from this perspective, you will always face an endless black knight vs white knight argument.

But to me, that they embrace traitors, make their mound by the traitors they entice while we value self-respect and wholesomeness, deriding the disloyal, is a fundamental difference that makes us better.

But that's media. The facts that even their rulers use in making decisions basically assumes China is correct. That is why global companies invest in China, not just production but R&D. Samsung shut down their production in China but expanded their R&D after all. That is why Volkswagen refused to divest from Xinjiang. If China was doing 1% as bad as they claimed then there would be a rush of divestment. The only reason they would not divest from a country they have outright stated they hate is because it is doing too well to divest from. They're not in China due to charity.

If the way even their own decision-makers move is consistent with the Chinese narrative, and inconsistent with their narrative, then that is proof that they're lying and they know it.

They have to come up with ever more contradictory, convoluted and illogical narratives that nobody trusts. The trust in media is at a historical low.

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Acknowledging China's achievements is just being objective. Doesn't require any convoluted reasoning, logical contradictions or believing an unbelievable media.

 

[manqiangrexue]

But that's media. The facts that even their rulers use in making decisions basically assumes China is correct. That is why global companies invest in China, not just production but R&D. Samsung shut down their production in China but expanded their R&D after all. That is why Volkswagen refused to divest from Xinjiang. If China was doing 1% as bad as they claimed then there would be a rush of divestment. The only reason they would not divest from a country they have outright stated they hate is because it is doing too well to divest from. They're not in China due to charity.
If the way even their own decision-makers move is consistent with the Chinese narrative, and inconsistent with their narrative, then that is proof that they're lying and they know it.

They have to come up with ever more contradictory, convoluted and illogical narratives that nobody trusts. The trust in media is at a historical low.

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Acknowledging China's achievements is just being objective. Doesn't require any convoluted reasoning, logical contradictions or believing an unbelievable media.

China is doing too well economically for them to divest from. It has nothing to do with whether or not they morally agree with us, which they don't. This is testament to China's economic power, not to its morality.

For you, if you have a child, what do you tell him/her?
1. Never betray your country because traitors are never respected anywhere.
2. Always do what you feel is right regardless of which side you need to move to.

If you do 1, what do you answer when they ask whether traitors from other countries coming to yours are to be respected and accepted? Are Chinese traitors bad but foreign traitors good?

If you do 2, what do you do if they fall victim to foreign media and begin to question whether the West could be in the right and China in the wrong? Do they pick their side and fight on that side or do they spend their time constantly evaluating who's right on what matter and how they should balance their contributions towards it?

I'm simple. I go with 1. I tell them to never betray their blood nation and never respect anyone who does because they don't even respect themselves. More solid than steel; doesn't leave a nanometer crack for hostile media influence.

 

[gadgetcool5]

Anhui, Hebei Are Latest Chinese Provinces to Include IVF in Medical Insurance Programs

(Yicai) July 17 -- Eastern Anhui province and northern Hebei province have become the latest Chinese provincial-level regions to include assisted reproductive services into their medical insurance schemes, as part of the nation’s drive to counter a dwindling population.

Eight fertility treatments, including egg retrieval and in vitro fertilization, will be covered by Anhui province’s medical insurance scheme starting Aug. 1. This is expected to reduce medical expenses for infertile couples by around CNY200 million (USD27.5 million) a year, the National Healthcare Security Administration said on July 16.

Beijing was the first city to include fertility treatments in its medical insurance scheme in July last year. There are now 14 provincial-level regions across the country that offer this benefit, including Anhui and Hebei provinces. They are Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, Shanghai, as well as Gansu, Zhejiang, Jiangxi, Shandong, Qinghai, Jiangsu and Jilin provinces. There are also other provinces, such as Guangdong, that are actively considering following suit.

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[FairAndUnbiased]

China is doing too well economically for them to divest from. It has nothing to do with whether or not they morally agree with us, which they don't. This is testament to China's economic power, not to its morality.

For you, if you have a child, what do you tell him/her?
1. Never betray your country because traitors are never respected anywhere.
2. Always do what you feel is right regardless of which side you need to move to.

If you do 1, what do you answer when they ask whether traitors from other countries coming to yours are to be respected and accepted? Are Chinese traitors bad but foreign traitors good?

If you do 2, what do you do if they fall victim to foreign media and begin to question whether the West could be in the right and China in the wrong? Do they pick their side and fight on that side or do they spend their time constantly evaluating who's right on what matter and how they should balance their contributions towards it?

I'm simple. I go with 1. I tell them to never betray their blood nation and never respect anyone who does because they don't even respect themselves. More solid than steel; doesn't leave a nanometer crack for hostile media influence.

Yeah I went with #2. I don't care to micromanage his opinions. I give my kid the tools needed to evaluate life on his own like teaching Chinese language and understanding how to evaluate opinions vs facts. everything else is just a gamble.

The narrative in western media is that China is economically collapsing. It is not merely about morality.

Yet their behavior suggests China is not collapsing but doing the opposite of collapsing.

When behavior does not line up with rhetoric that is a lie. If they lie in 1 thing they can lie in anything. Thus their morality judgement is also called into question.

 

[Staedler]

What the hell are you talking about? First of all, you're going into fantasy land with your examples and that is a telling sign of defeat in a logical debate.

Have you been in any formal debates? The point is arguments need to be logically consistent. The point of the extreme is to show how the argument has unacknowledged constraints that cause it to have shaky foundations.

Anyways, it seems like you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll leave it for another time.

 

[tygyg1111]

It is completely different. Objective truth exists. China has not provably killed millions both on purpose and for no reason in the past 20 years. China has led one of the greatest expansions of prosperity and declines in poverty not just in China but worldwide. Entire industries owe their existence to China.

An objective view would congratulate China on these achievements. The fact that the opposite occurs is due to state sponsored hatred and bias.

It is not a virtue to parrot state sponsored hatred and bias, just like it is not a virtue for a German to agree with Adolf Hitler in 1935. When the Nazi propaganda told Germans to reject the evidence of their eyes and ears and listen to the regime, those who obeyed were not the courageous ones.

Just a personal observation:

Objective truth falls apart when the people on the opposing side decide to ignore it and decide to move en masse in the opposite direction.

Relying on objective truth in the hope that the other side suddenly sees the light and offers a handshake, realizing the error of their ways is something that trips up a lot of people of Asian background in America, because it just doesn't work when the other side have already decided they're going against you.
The power of the Jews in the US is because they don't give a damn about objective truth (in fact they try, successfully, to turn their narrative into the 'objective truth' via their control of media), and support their own people no matter what.

Know objective truth for the purpose making your next decisions (e.g. what company to invest in next), however understand that crowd dynamics don't necessarily follow a scientist's evidence based approach.

The Korean war was won by going against the objective truth of the odds of a WWII era army winning against a modern UN army. If everyone moves against the odds (in certain situations), you can change them.

My personal take is that I will always support my own people, even if I know we are in the wrong, because as long as we win we can choose to make amends later. If people choose to take the 'objective truth' and turn their backs on the group, then it's only ourselves that will suffer as the conditions of losing are imposed on us. There is plenty of historical precedence from wars in the 1800s-1900s.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Just a personal observation:

Objective truth falls apart when the people on the opposing side decide to ignore it and decide to move en masse in the opposite direction.

Relying on objective truth in the hope that the other side suddenly sees the light and offers a handshake, realizing the error of their ways is something that trips up a lot of people of Asian background in America, because it just doesn't work when the other side have already decided they're going against you.
The power of the Jews in the US is because they don't give a damn about objective truth (in fact they try, successfully, to turn their narrative into the 'objective truth' via their control of media), and support their own people no matter what.

Know objective truth for the purpose making your next decisions (e.g. what company to invest in next), however understand that crowd dynamics don't necessarily follow a scientist's evidence based approach.

The Korean war was won by going against the objective truth of the odds of a WWII era army winning against a modern UN army. If everyone moves against the odds (in certain situations), you can change them.

My personal take is that I will always support my own people, even if I know we are in the wrong, because as long as we win we can choose to make amends later. If people choose to take the 'objective truth' and turn their backs on the group, then it's only ourselves that will suffer as the conditions of losing are imposed on us. There is plenty of historical precedence from wars in the 1800s-1900s.

I do not expect the other side to see the light at all. But it will be to their disadvantage. Those who know facts and act accordingly will be in a better position than those who do not know facts and act according to fantasy. This is seen over and over again - how come it looks like China is like a guy with a cheat code in a video game? Because that's what knowing reality is, almost a cheat code in a land of delusion.

The Korean War wasn't a gamble or delusion either. Zhou Enlai and Peng Dehuai made the plans knowing all the strengths and weaknesses of the UN army. They did not send armies to charge UN machine guns and hope for the best, they used maneuver, concealment and signals discipline to achieve strategic surprise.

 

[tygyg1111]

I do not expect the other side to see the light at all. But it will be to their disadvantage. Those who know facts and act accordingly will be in a better position than those who do not know facts and act according to fantasy. This is seen over and over again - how come it looks like China is like a guy with a cheat code in a video game? Because that's what knowing reality is, almost a cheat code in a land of delusion.

The Korean War wasn't a gamble or delusion either. Zhou Enlai and Peng Dehuai made the plans knowing all the strengths and weaknesses of the UN army. They did not send armies to charge UN machine guns and hope for the best, they used maneuver, concealment and signals discipline to achieve strategic surprise.

This agrees with what I'm saying - Know objective truth for your own decision making, but support your own people unconditionally.

Going back to the 'traitor/not traitor' topic - the key point is that whether someone wants to or not, if they visibly looks different, they will always be seen as a member of X group by others regardless of objective truth (e.g. 'citizen'). So regardless of what it says on some pieces of paper, people need to know some sides you can't join in full no matter how hard you try, other sides you are already part of whether you know it or not.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This agrees with what I'm saying - Know objective truth for your own decision making, but support your own people unconditionally.

Going back to the 'traitor/not traitor' topic - the key point is that whether someone wants to or not, if they visibly looks different, they will always be seen as a member of X group by others regardless of objective truth (e.g. 'citizen'). So regardless of what it says on some pieces of paper, people need to know some sides you can't join in full no matter how hard you try, other sides you are already part of whether you know it or not.

By that logic, whites in China should all act like Serpentza and be ungrateful little bitches who badmouth China all the time while leaching Chinese resources, since 'they are a member of X group regardless of objective truth'. Anything else means they're 'traitors'.

I disagree. I think that if they're being little bitches about it and hate China they should GTFO while if they support China they should stay. Is this particularly controversial?