China demographics thread.

[broadsword]

I mean yeah simply due to the fact that right now China is the enemy and doing so is bad optics for putting your direct enemy in charge.

But even if they weren't like Japan or Korea they wouldn't fare any better since they aren't Indo-European. Maybe they don't even see Indians as "Asians" and don't feel so threatened by then. The Ukraine war has somewhat revealed European distrust of anything from the east that looks oriental since it reminds them of Genghis Khan and the other nomads who traveled west.

Thinking about it, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans created Nvidia, Yahoo, Lam Research, Alibaba, Huawei, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, TSMC etc. Maybe that also makes Europeans feel threatened. Genghis Khan is going westward to attack again but this time in the form of companies.

View attachment 129111

But the Chinese have been held down far longer than that. The last Chinese CEO of a major US company was one I can recall was the Charles Wang of Computer Associates.

Here are interesting bits I found from a quick search regarding racism in the US.

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In this extensive survey, both the Chinese and Indians reported the same percentage of adults who were denied promotions due to race.

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@Chevalier @azn_cyniq , I trust the following report more for its more obvious observation.

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Indian Americans' outstanding oratorical skills​

In his view, the Indians have one clear advantage over the Chinese: they are very good at debating. To me, debating and debate-related communication skills are indeed weaknesses of Chinese Americans.

Not everyone of us is like @manqiangrexue , but we have to be objective otherwise we become the subject of ridicule. Saying China will overcome all attempts to suppress China is different from saying our competitors got it only through sucking up.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

But the Chinese have been held down far longer than that. The last Chinese CEO of a major US company was one I can recall was the Charles Wang of Computer Associates.

Here are interesting bits I found from a quick search regarding racism in the US.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

In this extensive survey, both the Chinese and Indians reported the same percentage of adults who were denied promotions due to race.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

@Chevalier @azn_cyniq , I trust the following report more for its more obvious observation.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Not everyone of us is like @manqiangrexue , but we have to be objective otherwise we become the subject of ridicule. Saying China will overcome all attempts to suppress China is different from saying our competitors got it only through sucking up.

A bit of history. Indians were used for 200+ years as administrators for the British Empire to act as the middleman oppressor for the British so the British would not have to get their hands too dirty. Indians were imported to Africa, for instance, to oppress the native Africans.

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They were also used to oppress each other under careful British supervision.

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From their British legacy, they have a rich tradition of competing inside western bureaucracies, including government and corporate. That sets them up very well for competing within already established bureaucracies with lots of known rules.

However, competing within a bureaucracy itself is just 内卷. It doesn't have much value for nation building which is all about charting unknown waters with no rules, and that is why India is like India today. They do have a very well developed extractive bureaucracy though.

 

[Randomuser]

But the Chinese have been held down far longer than that. The last Chinese CEO of a major US company was one I can recall was the Charles Wang of Computer Associates.

Here are interesting bits I found from a quick search regarding racism in the US.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

In this extensive survey, both the Chinese and Indians reported the same percentage of adults who were denied promotions due to race.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

@Chevalier @azn_cyniq , I trust the following report more for its more obvious observation.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Not everyone of us is like @manqiangrexue , but we have to be objective otherwise we become the subject of ridicule. Saying China will overcome all attempts to suppress China is different from saying our competitors got it only through sucking up.

I am not really sure what the purpose of using a self reporting poll to say you felt discriminated due to race for promotion is serving. The results of who are in the higher positions kinda speak for themselves. If more of you like to blame race for it, the numbers go up in the poll but that may not actually reflect reality. The Japanese could be discriminated as much as Chinese but because they simply might be too humble or ignorant (as a result of conditioning) to blame race so they say no it had nothing to do with it in a poll.

Not to mention are these even in the same positions? There's a difference between saying I was denied the role of manager due to my race vs I was denied the role of CEO due to my race.

 

[broadsword]

A bit of history. Indians were used for 200+ years as administrators for the British Empire to act as the middleman oppressor for the British so the British would not have to get their hands too dirty. Indians were imported to Africa, for instance, to oppress the native Africans.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

They were also used to oppress each other under careful British supervision.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

From their British legacy, they have a rich tradition of competing inside western bureaucracies, including government and corporate. That sets them up very well for competing within already established bureaucracies with lots of known rules.

However, competing within a bureaucracy itself is just 内卷. It doesn't have much value for nation building which is all about charting unknown waters with no rules, and that is why India is like India today. They do have a very well developed extractive bureaucracy though.

That is plausible.

I am not really sure what the purpose of using a self reporting poll to say you felt discriminated due to race for promotion is serving. The results of who are in the higher positions kinda speak for themselves. If more of you like to blame race for it, the numbers go up in the poll but that may not actually reflect reality. The Japanese could be discriminated as much as Chinese but because they simply might be too humble or ignorant (as a result of conditioning) to blame race so they say no it had nothing to do with it in a poll.

Not to mention are these even in the same positions? There's a difference between saying I was denied the role of manager due to my race vs I was denied the role of CEO due to my race.

Take it for what you will. Different people interpret differently.

 

[Randomuser]

Btw while I am interested on discussions on India vs China culture, I think we should have a seperate new thread on it? Seems like we are getting distracted from what the current thread is supposed to be about and the mods will probably have to step in soon.

Theres a lot to talk about but its probably best done there where we don't have to worry about mod intervention.

 

[azn_cyniq]

But the Chinese have been held down far longer than that. The last Chinese CEO of a major US company was one I can recall was the Charles Wang of Computer Associates.

What about Jensen Huang (Nvidia, Market Cap: $2.22 trillion), Lisa Su (AMD, Market Cap: $243 billion), Hock Tan (Broadcom, Market Cap: $592 billion), Tony Xu (DoorDash, Market Cap: $46 billion), and Eric Yuan (Zoom, Market Cap: $19 billion)?

@Chevalier @azn_cyniq , I trust the following report more for its more obvious observation.

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Not everyone of us is like @manqiangrexue , but we have to be objective otherwise we become the subject of ridicule. Saying China will overcome all attempts to suppress China is different from saying our competitors got it only through sucking up.

Come on, man. In what world are the contents of this article objective?

I was not talking about nepotism in the first place. I was talking about securing the top posts like in Microsoft, Pepsi, Google, etc. It was @Chevalier who later expanded it to nepotism, a point which I don't disagree. So your post is not relevant.

American companies are wary of promoting people related to adversarial nations to such positions. Furthermore, India is a huge market for the companies you mentioned, so having an Indian CEO is beneficial for them.

 

[broadsword]

What about Jensen Huang (Nvidia, Market Cap: $2.22 trillion), Lisa Su (AMD, Market Cap: $243 billion), Hock Tan (Broadcom, Market Cap: $592 billion), Tony Xu (DoorDash, Market Cap: $46 billion), and Eric Yuan (Zoom, Market Cap: $19 billion)?

You are moving the goalposts. Three out of the five are founders.

Come on, man. In what world are the contents of this article objective?

You decide for yourself then.

American companies are wary of promoting people related to adversarial nations to such positions. Furthermore, India is a huge market for the companies you mentioned, so having an Indian CEO makes sense for them.

I agree with your first sentence. Chinese Americans can forget about heading Microsoft and Google. But there are other companies that are not tech-laden and China is an even bigger market.

 

[Randomuser]

What about Jensen Huang (Nvidia, Market Cap: $2.22 trillion), Lisa Su (AMD, Market Cap: $243 billion), Hock Tan (Broadcom, Market Cap: $592 billion), Tony Xu (DoorDash, Market Cap: $46 billion), and Eric Yuan (Zoom, Market Cap: $19 billion)?


Come on, man. In what world are the contents of this article objective?


American companies are wary of promoting people related to adversarial nations to such positions. Furthermore, India is a huge market for the companies you mentioned, so having an Indian CEO is beneficial for them.

Its not just that. Nepotism is part of office politics to get to the top. Its not just that people like you that they promote you to the top. Sometimes they HAVE to promote you because your bargaining power is too much to ignore since all the guys below you owe their allegiance to you. Why did the Qing emperors have to grant so many favours to Mongol generals (that they behind the door disliked) like marrying their daughters off to them? Coz those guys controlled a lot of the army such as mongol cavalry.

Suddenly I remember An Lushan in the Tang dynasty. A Turkic guy he became governor of the entire northern region and replaced all the generals there with other Turkic guys who were ethnically more loyal to him. While you could argue he was good at sucking up to the emperor, what also helped was more and more of the army were replaced by his guys that were more loyal to him which helped his bargaining power as well so the emperor as well as the officials kinda had no choice but to give into his demands. And then the An Lushan rebellion happened where the rest is history.

 

[tankphobia]

Imo the biggest reason for the success of East Asian countries is not due to some genetic or inherit trait. By putting it down to a race thing you're discounting generations of toiling by the ruling class to homogenise the populace. In almost every instance that there are successes, the minority have been so severely suppressed that now the opposite policies are used just so they don't get completely assimilated.

Historically Chinese conquest of new territory from the days of the Qin Dynasty has been the standardise or die route, by thoroughly crushing ethnic minorities and forcing them into a general "Chinese" race, modern China is able to not waste any of the national resources on race wars or tribal conflict, which severely saps the country's vitality.

India is not the only example of this inability to manage ethnic tensions, Malaysia, Indonesia, Myanmar and much of the middle east falls prey to this trap, even worse when they immigrate to foreign countries, they bring this ethnic conflict with them which becomes headaches for the host countries, as seen in five eyes countries and their tension with India.

 

[azn_cyniq]

I agree with your first sentence. Chinese Americans can forget about heading Microsoft and Google. But there are other companies that are not tech-laden and China is an even bigger market.

You're not wrong, but those companies typically have Chinese competitors, so they tend to be wary about promoting people of Chinese descent to executive positions.

You are moving the goalposts. Three out of the five are founders.

My apologies, I didn't know you were talking about non-founder CEOs. The truth is that the US has identified China as its primary competitor, so Chinese-Americans need to work harder to become CEOs. Chinese people should study hard so that they can use their knowledge to start profitable businesses. In my opinion, it's more meaningful to become a CEO of a company that you founded than to be promoted to that position.

Here is a promising start-up with Chinese-American founders:

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People have tried to discredit them, but I know one of the co-founders and I'm confident that this company is legit. Chinese-Americans should follow in the footsteps of people like Steve Chen (co-founder, YouTube), Jerry Yang (co-founder, Yahoo), and Justin Kan (cofounder, Twitch). However, unlike those three, they shouldn't sell their companies.