China demographics thread.

[FairAndUnbiased]

I'm not seeing a race towards dominance here; in fact those numbers show China publishes fewer research AI papers today as a % of the total compared to 2010. Further, the vast majority of China's papers are in areas like computer vision, where practicality is driving the research. Basic research - the sort that leads to break throughs like Deep Learning - still mostly take place in the West and especially the US.

I'm not saying this to down play China's achievements as China is still obviously ahead of everyone else not in the West and many of the authors of Western papers are Chinese or Indian. But the Western choke hold on basic research persists and it has much to do with the ability to just throw government and investor money at it.



Exactly so. The US's ultimate power comes from finance. It can afford to keep research areas alive that are of no commercial value, and did for decades through the various AI winters. China and the rest of East Asia chose - and is still choosing - to focus on practical, applied research in industries like manufacturing. This is a conscious trade off and it has consequences, one of which is that the West is incredibly strong in basic research, while East Asia is incredibly strong in advanced manufacturing.

IDK much about AI. but in physical sciences (chemistry, physics and environmental science) China is basically overrunning everyone.

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China's only really behind in biological and health sciences. Yet despite that, China's end results in health are still better, which makes one question exactly what use it is being 'ahead' in biomedical science when the objective - to lead longer, healthier lives with lower environmental impact - is completely not being reached.

 

[gelgoog]

The US's ultimate power comes from finance. It can afford to keep research areas alive that are of no commercial value, and did for decades through the various AI winters. China and the rest of East Asia chose - and is still choosing - to focus on practical, applied research in industries like manufacturing. This is a conscious trade off and it has consequences, one of which is that the West is incredibly strong in basic research, while East Asia is incredibly strong in advanced manufacturing.

Expect things to change with the increased number of advanced research facilities in China. For example the US doesn't even have proper high Mach wind tunnels. Russia and China have them. If the US is that good at basic research why is it that China got operational hypersonics first?

 

[azn_cyniq]

China and the rest of East Asia chose - and is still choosing - to focus on practical, applied research in industries like manufacturing. This is a conscious trade off and it has consequences, one of which is that the West is incredibly strong in basic research, while East Asia is incredibly strong in advanced manufacturing.

I agree, but this seems to be changing.

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Last year, China spent 221.2 billion yuan (~$30 billion) on basic research. China's basic research spending has been growing at roughly 9-10% a year, meaning that it will double in roughly 7-8 years. Obviously, China still lags behind the USA, which spent more than $100 billion on basic research in 2023, but I think it's clear that China understands the importance of basic research. Basic research isn't something you can just throw money at. It takes roughly 10 years (BS, MS, PhD) to train a researcher, so I think that China's basic research spending growth is quite healthy. Many universities in China are either already world-class or in the process of becoming world-class, so they should be more than capable of providing a steady supply of researchers who are capable of performing high-quality basic research.

 

[tokenanalyst]

I'm not seeing a race towards dominance here; in fact those numbers show China publishes fewer research AI papers today as a % of the total compared to 2010. Further, the vast majority of China's papers are in areas like computer vision, where practicality is driving the research. Basic research - the sort that leads to break throughs like Deep Learning - still mostly take place in the West and especially the US.

I'm not saying this to down play China's achievements as China is still obviously ahead of everyone else not in the West and many of the authors of Western papers are Chinese or Indian. But the Western choke hold on basic research persists and it has much to do with the ability to just throw government and investor money at it.

WRONG AGAIN


A lot of the contributions of Open Source AI Framerworks in github is coming from China.


Even if we assume that the US is #1 in AI, China is NOT a distant second like you said.

 

[coolgod]

Is discussions on Chinese AI research vs Western AI research really suitable for China's demographics thread?

Saw this on Weibo. First time I've seen any level Chinese government show support for foreign brides. CGTN still has too many foreign hosts/bloggers/interviewees who are married to Chinese wives, I have yet to see the reverse

China should prioritize family visa/immigration based on sex, either artificially favour foreign females or setup a quota system like green card except it's by sex. That 30 million surplus male hole isn't going to fill itself.

 

[azn_cyniq]

WRONG AGAIN
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A lot of the contributions of Open Source AI Framerworks in github is coming from China.
View attachment 128693

Even if we assume that the US is #1 in AI, China is NOT a distant second like you said.

I think what he is trying to say is that the US still conducts more basic research in the field of AI than China, which is true. Most of the research that China conducts in this field is applied research. The US and Europe are better at using mathematics, neuroscience, etc. to come up with new methods to implement artificial intelligence (basic research). China is really good at coming up with new ways to use artificial intelligence in the real world (applied research). Both are important, but basic research is more important because without it, applied research would not be possible.

I am confident in the future of basic research in China because China has millions of talented mathematicians, physicists, chemists, etc. To become a basic research hub, a country needs to have two things:

1) Lots of money
2) Researchers and facilities capable of supporting high-quality research in the basic sciences (mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, etc.)

China has both, so I think the future is bright.

 

[sunnymaxi]

Is discussions on Chinese AI research vs Western AI research really suitable for China's demographics thread?

Saw this on Weibo. First time I've seen any level Chinese government show support for foreign brides. CGTN still has too many foreign hosts/bloggers/interviewees who are married to Chinese wives, I have yet to see the reverse

China should prioritize family visa/immigration based on sex, either artificially favour foreign females or setup a quota system like green card except it's by sex. That 30 million surplus male hole isn't going to fill itself.

View attachment 128701

View attachment 128702

These are Cambodian and Vietnamese wives marry to Chinese men




this is just pretty normal to encourage and i don't care about CGTN. and i believe what i see in cities and day to day people.. let me tell you once again bro .. there are way way more foreign women marrying in China to Chinese men than Chinese women marry to western men. there was a time when Chinese women have inferiority complex. consider west superior and its not anymore .. in 2019 ''Chinese women marry to western guy'' parentage hit at lowest level. unfortunately i have lost statistics chart.. i will post if i find..
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i don't believe in reveling personal life but since this couple is on YouTube so i m posting..

this Chinese guy have Belarusian wife. his wife introduce two of her friends to Chinese men.. so these three Belarusian beauties have settled in China with Chinese men .. this is just one example. i have lost count in recent years.

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recently in Beijing, i have seen many American wives.. interesting.

this American girl married to Chinese man. currently this couple is living in Beijing

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i believe, we might see some new policy or Law in near future for foreign wives, for those who settled in mainland with Chinese men. some kind of Permanent residence.. because percentage is growing.. recently Chinese government introduce new PR policy. that Five star card..

 

[ansy1968]

These are Cambodian and Vietnamese wives marry to Chinese men

View attachment 128707


this is just pretty normal to encourage and i don't care about CGTN. and i believe what i see in cities and day to day people.. let me tell you once again bro .. there are way way more foreign women marrying in China to Chinese men than Chinese women marry to western men. there was a time when Chinese women have inferiority complex. consider west superior and its not anymore .. in 2019 ''Chinese women marry to western guy'' parentage hit at lowest level. unfortunately i have lost statistics chart.. i will post if i find..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't believe in reveling personal life but since this couple is on YouTube so i m posting..

this Chinese guy have Belarusian wife. his wife introduce two of her friends to Chinese men.. so these three Belarusian beauties have settled in China with Chinese men .. this is just one example. i have lost count in recent years.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
recently in Beijing, i have seen many American wives.. interesting.

this American girl married to Chinese man. currently this couple is living in Beijing

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i believe, we might see some new policy or Law in near future for foreign wives, for those who settled in mainland with Chinese men. some kind of Permanent residence.. because percentage is growing.. recently Chinese government introduce new PR policy. that Five star card..

Yup bro being a Chinese now a days is beautiful, I envied my son, he will have the chance to taste a lot of White leghorn meat.....lol

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Is discussions on Chinese AI research vs Western AI research really suitable for China's demographics thread?

Saw this on Weibo. First time I've seen any level Chinese government show support for foreign brides. CGTN still has too many foreign hosts/bloggers/interviewees who are married to Chinese wives, I have yet to see the reverse

China should prioritize family visa/immigration based on sex, either artificially favour foreign females or setup a quota system like green card except it's by sex. That 30 million surplus male hole isn't going to fill itself.

View attachment 128701

View attachment 128702

China should improve immigration in general but with a way to fairly adjust who stays. I think one way is to change to a birthright citizenship system: whoever is born in China can be offered Chinese passport and a married biological or adoptive parent of a Chinese citizen can be offered PR.

That would encourage foreign married women and whole families to stay and have kids. It would also encourage their kids to not leave China.

Primaey education reform is necessary though so that people see this as an advantage. Chinese schools really need to work smarter, many are still using brute force and dumb 1970s methods.

 

[BlackWindMnt]

Yup bro being a Chinese now a days is beautiful, I envied my son, he will have the chance to taste a lot of White leghorn meat.....lol

Imaging being stuck in country full of tall blond leghorns. Tasted some blond leghorns i still think Asian leghorns taste better even if they are a bit western bobba seasoned.