"China" - BBC Two's new 4-part documentary

Mace, you still have not said anything about the BBC documentary in question. If all you can do is whine about the West then that is not nearly good enough. If you want to bitch, go and start a thread - we'll see how long it lasts. But I'm not going to play your game.

Talk about the documentary or don't talk at all.

P.S. The British gave Northern Irish Catholics rights that the Protestant Northern Irish took away in the first place. So your belief that "rights can only be taken away" is incorrect.

P.P.S. Democracy was introduced to HK late. But democratic principles were instituted a lot earlier.

EDIT: I am happy to talk about any issues on another thread or over PMs. But I am not going to start more posts about anything other than the BBC documentary.

As a last point, HK wouldn't have any democracy if it wasn't for us. That was what China had to agree to in order to get HK island and Kowloon back in addition to the New Territories.

FuManChu said:

Mace, you still have not said anything about the BBC documentary in question. If all you can do is whine about the West then that is not nearly good enough. If you want to bitch, go and start a thread - we'll see how long it lasts. But I'm not going to play your game.

Talk about the documentary or don't talk at all.

P.S. The British gave Northern Irish Catholics rights that the Protestant Northern Irish took away in the first place. So your belief that "rights can only be taken away" is incorrect.

P.P.S. Democracy was introduced to HK late. But democratic principles were instituted a lot earlier.

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Sorry, don't have access to the documentary but that doesn't deny me the right to criticize British intentions and hypocrisy especially when you're covering up and perpetuating their lies.

Whining is telling others not to exercise their rights to counter lies. What? You can't counter the arguments made so you just want to deny others the right to criticize? Ever notice the ones that hide behind freedom and democracy are always trying deny it from others when it doesn't suit their purpose?

Democratic principles? Making excuses? You know that's not full democratic rights. The Chinese government is only continuing the system left by the British in Hong Kong so why complain? Hong Kong has now had a longer history of the democracy installed by the British under China than under them. How ironic is that?

Thanks for demonstrating your hypocrisy and confirming my point that you guys don't really care about human rights in China and it's all about looking for an excuse to hate.

How about rise of china on HDTV. it is also pretty good. goes into mainly social/economic issues and only touches very brief on the PLA but is good. The HD makes it really worth watching.

FuManChu said:

Mace, you still have not said anything about the BBC documentary in question. If all you can do is whine about the West then that is not nearly good enough. If you want to bitch, go and start a thread - we'll see how long it lasts. But I'm not going to play your game.

Talk about the documentary or don't talk at all.

P.S. The British gave Northern Irish Catholics rights that the Protestant Northern Irish took away in the first place. So your belief that "rights can only be taken away" is incorrect.

P.P.S. Democracy was introduced to HK late. But democratic principles were instituted a lot earlier.

EDIT: I am happy to talk about any issues on another thread or over PMs. But I am not going to start more posts about anything other than the BBC documentary.

As a last point, HK wouldn't have any democracy if it wasn't for us. That was what China had to agree to in order to get HK island and Kowloon back in addition to the New Territories.

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Next time just reply to new posts. Don't edit them after other posts have been made replying to your edited posts. It looks like you're trying to manipulate the facts.

Under treaty the British had to turn over Hong Kong. The negotiations started after the Falklands War and British hawks were planning to violate the treaty and keep Hong Kong. China said they were going into Hong Kong no matter what because it was their right under treaty to do so. The British only installed their half-assed democracy after negotiations when they knew the hand-over was coming. The Chinese didn't agree to that and that's why they were complaining at the time because they knew Hong Kong was being used as a poison pill to China. Again you avoid the fact that the British didn't care about democracy in Hong Kong when they were in control.

So now you're making excuses for the West violating treaties. Now all of the sudden "the rule of law" the British always use to distinguish themselves as a civilized country can be violated anytime you wish? Interesting when other countries violate treaties they're called rogue nations and uncivilized. And you don't understand why there are people in the world that don't trust the West when you happily admit that the West can violate the rules that you expect the world to follow. You're not winning points with your argument that the world should follow the British example. You know who else makes rules but don't follow them themselves? They're called dictators. See you haven't left your imperialistic history so far behind. It's the same song but just sung to a different tune.

AssassinsMace said:

Next time just reply to new posts. Don't edit them after other posts have been made replying to your edited posts. It looks like you're trying to manipulate the facts.

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No, it's not - it's called "not rising to the bait". And I'm not going to talk to you any more on matters not related to the series. All these topics were raised by other people trying to divert from the main discussion - I did them a favour by answering them. But I'm not interested in any more off-topic comments, so if you want to talk about HK, etc you can go start a new thread.

utelore said:

How about rise of china on HDTV. it is also pretty good. goes into mainly social/economic issues and only touches very brief on the PLA but is good. The HD makes it really worth watching.

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Hmm, what's that? When was it made - do you still have a link to it?

FuManChu said:

"Pro-West"? Really that's completely unfair to suggest the pro-democracy campaigners have anything to do with a "pro-West" view. They're campaigning for HK's future - the US and Europe doesn't come into it.

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Many of these Pro-democracy campaigners were holding others countries passport, they were also having connections with many western government organizations. If you want to use Pro-democracy, I don't have problem. But for me they are not campaigning for HK's future, just a bunch of self-interests political people with no clear intentions or agendas to make HK better. If they care so much about HK, why most of them are not actively campaigning democracy under British rule. BTW HK today is having far greater freedom than under British rule.

OFF TOPIC

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KYli, I have already told Mace I am not going to talk about off-topic comments. Please have the decency to stop talking about issues not related to the series. You have complained in the past when I made O/T comments in threads - you're now doing exactly the same. At least I have the decency to stop.

I'll say what I said to Mace, if you want to talk about Hong Kong that much go start a thread on it.

My last comment to you is that there was a lot of campaigning for greater rights before 1997. If you get a book on HK political history you will be able to read all about it.

FuManChu said:

No, it's not - it's called "not rising to the bait". And I'm not going to talk to you any more on matters not related to the series. All these topics were raised by other people trying to divert from the main discussion - I did them a favour by answering them. But I'm not interested in any more off-topic comments, so if you want to talk about HK, etc you can go start a new thread.

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You seem to be always coming back for more.

It's called challenging your misinformation. I only replied to statements in your posts. You talked about freedom and rights and people being imprisoned without trial in China. And I showed you that the British imprisoned people without trial too. If you didn't want to be challenged then don't bring hypocitical charges that return to bite the British back in the ass.

You talk about whining? Whining is complaining about facts you can't seem to argue against then demanding no one debate your posts. So the people that only follow what you believe seem to be only allowed to an opinion here? What kind of freedom is that?

This whole thread is a diversion to perpetuate a self-serving geo-political agenda in the guise of human rights and freedom.

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