China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Even US helped Russia improve their equivalent of SBIRS in 1990s. It is in the interest of other nuclear powers that there isn't any false detection of missile launches which could lead to nuclear war. This might be help with processing algorithms. It might be help with designing satellite sensors. But I think China needs no help with space based sensors at this point.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's hella sus lmao. You don't rely on other countries to relay early warning data to you. It may not even be in their best interest to.

I'm pretty sure it just referred to helping China with the LPAR/space based sensor implementation given their experience. China doesn't even need sensors based in Russia for LoW. Space based is the most important part.
China outright doesn't have the line of sight to the Arctic Ocean so it's either rely on Russian data, build tracking sites in Russia or just accept a wait time before tracking is possible for projectiles coming above the local horizon in northern China.

US geostationary SBIR is mostly a launch detector. It doesn't track objects. LEO SBIR is a small field passive tracker. However, any infrared camera is optically swath limited and LEO satellites move fast. Reentry vehicles also move fast. Fast sensor + fast target + small swath size = hard to get a persistent track. For tracking US operates PAVE PAWS and SBX. Radar is not swath limited, you can scan massive areas at once then direct narrow beam radars to track.

It isn't about technical weakness or anything, it is literally that China doesn't have the geography to see an important launch route. So unless China can build inside Russia or permanently stations Yuanwang ships in Europe, or accepts loss of this capability...
 

bustead

Junior Member
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If these radars are of Russian standards, wouldn't it be more difficult to integrate them into the current/future Chinese ABM system?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
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If these radars are of Russian standards, wouldn't it be more difficult to integrate them into the current/future Chinese ABM system?
Chinese LPAR isn't Russian in origin. China has been building LPAR for decades. For ABM the main purpose of a Russian radar will be early warning, boost stage tracking and to cue Chinese radars rather than providing targeting or tracking data. By the time the missile is visible in China then Chinese radars will be able to see it for mid course tracking and targeting.

China's current ground based ABM has already been tested a decade ago.
 

pipaster

Junior Member
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Chinese LPAR isn't Russian in origin. China has been building LPAR for decades. For ABM the main purpose of a Russian radar will be early warning, boost stage tracking and to cue Chinese radars rather than providing targeting or tracking data. By the time the missile is visible in China then Chinese radars will be able to see it for mid course tracking and targeting.

China's current ground based ABM has already been tested a decade ago.
I would add the possibility of a NORAD like relation between the two parties. Where a common sir picture is created. The US relies somewhat on Canadian sensors.
 

clockwork

Junior Member
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Interesting:
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But:
>A train-based ICBM launch system would be more likely to survive the first wave of nuclear attack than other land-based systems, such as silos and trucks, according to military experts.

I don't see how HSR based would necessarily be more survivable than TEL given that its possible location would be confined to a one-dimensional network while the search range for a (offroad-capable) TEL would have to be a 2D area, and it's also a much larger target to spot. Maybe other advantages though.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
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Interesting:
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But:
>A train-based ICBM launch system would be more likely to survive the first wave of nuclear attack than other land-based systems, such as silos and trucks, according to military experts.

I don't see how HSR based would necessarily be more survivable than TEL given that its possible location would be confined to a one-dimensional network while the search range for a (offroad-capable) TEL would have to be a 2D area, and it's also a much larger target to spot. Maybe other advantages though.
one theory is that with the form factor of a train car, it would blend in, and it travels much faster on a train (300 kph vs 100 kph). it would also be able to fire from anywhere on the network while many TELs need prepared sites to fire, and have prebuilt shelter in rail tunnels and subways.
 

BoraTas

Major
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Interesting:
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But:
>A train-based ICBM launch system would be more likely to survive the first wave of nuclear attack than other land-based systems, such as silos and trucks, according to military experts.

I don't see how HSR based would necessarily be more survivable than TEL given that its possible location would be confined to a one-dimensional network while the search range for a (offroad-capable) TEL would have to be a 2D area, and it's also a much larger target to spot. Maybe other advantages though.
It is easier to conceal the train car launcher. TELs are very distinctive vehicles but ICBM train cars may look just like civilian trains.
For example the launcher for the Peacekeeper ICBM:

Peacekeeper_Rail_Garrison_Car_-_Dayton_-_kingsley_-_12-29-08.jpg

And for Molodets... One of these wagons can launch a 105 ton ICBM with 10 550 kt warheads and an 11000 km range. Which one(s) do you think has an ICBM inside? Impossible to say even if you are standing next to it, let alone from the space. Reports indicate that the train could launch the Molodets while cruising at 120 km/h.
1650676638189.png

What an ordinary innocent train car isn't it
1650677082918.png

But looks can be deceiving
1650677249133.png
 
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