China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[Hendrik_2000]

Intercontinental ballistic missiles and intermediate range even without MaRVs can be very accurate, some reaching 50 meters, but because they have a “post boost” which is a propelled stage that puts the ballistic reentry vehicle in the exact position to have a very accurate big. Short- and medium-range missiles (up to 3000 km) do not adopt this type of stage and depend entirely on a MaRV for accuracy, otherwise the accuracy is very poor.

A minority of these Chinese missiles are equipped with MaRVs (maneuverable reentry vehicle) and none yet with HGV (hypersonic glider vehicle). That is, most have very poor accuracy, which removes much of its real value. That is changing, but it turns out that at present the Chinese cannot get the best out of their ASBM devices.

Not all warheads can be implemented with MaRVs. The internal volume and mass of a MaRV available for the actual payload (explosives) are significantly reduced by additional indispensable equipment (guidance system, steering elements, energy sources, perhaps also fuel sensors), among other things. An example would be the DF-11, that missile cannot have the space needed to load MaRV, as this would exclude space for other essential things in the operation of the missile.

A ballistic missile with a range of 1000 km with a conventional RV (reentry vehicle) can only adjust its accuracy in the thrust phase, with the engines running. It does not have an altitude control system in space capable of refining the accuracy of its warhead. It only ejects it when the propellant runs out and the rocket engine shuts down. At most it corrects its trajectory based on the inertial system and GPS while burning fuel. This type of action is impossible to provide great precision to a ballistic warhead that will suffer the consequences of passing through the atmosphere, which will result in a departure from the expected point of impact and so that there is no correction.

There are two ways for a ballistic missile to re-enter the atmosphere: ejecting a reentry vehicle or the missile being a single body. If it is a reentry vehicle (RV) it cannot have terminal orientation because it does not have actuators that can interact with the atmosphere and make it change direction, unless it is a MaRV.

If it is single-body it can change direction with the help of fins that would work throughout the flight.

There is no way for a ballistic missile to have a terminal guidance system other than a MaRV, and it cannot be applied to a traditional warhead. It can even have a post boost and refine the accuracy, but then it would be inertial / GPS or equivalent, but not a terminal orientation with a radar on the nose of the warhead.



As for the satellite constellation, Hendrick responded to my comment by stating about the use of Yaogan-30 for the designation of a moving target as a CVN, and the task was only completed last year. And the previous years? Didn't I have the ability to track a ship in the South China Sea?

This is all BS show your ignorance, hubris and superiority complex. watch this shengzhou docking with accuracy of 1 cm using mini thruster remotely controlled

 

[SimaQian]

I don't know how the Iranians acquire the target, but in order to have a terminal orientation, you must necessarily have a MaRV.



That's exactly what I'm talking about. China has external actuators for targeting targets such as the Soar Dragon, it necessarily needs these assets to obtain confirmation of the target before launching the ballistic missile. A satellite cannot obtain to be a target acquisition platform as well as OTH radars, the ideal solution adopted is precisely UAVs and I know that China is advancing in this field.

However, what I say is that before these vectors were operational, how did the DF-21D achieve the target's accuracy with an incomplete satellite constellation it held and without these external actuators?

Don't get me wrong. China is really doing something incredible in Asia with A2 / AD capable of denying an area for a CSG and is starting to "push" out of the First Chain of Islands, but this architecture is not yet completely complete and I do not imagine that China manages to hit a moving target 1,500 km away. This is changing with the incredible Chinese development that I follow through this website, Soar Dragon itself is an incredible platform for what I am arguing, but that development is not yet capable of overcoming the challenges presented in the western Pacific.

This was discussed long time ago back in August 2020. And besides, the American navy already aknowledges that the Chinese anti ship ballistic missles are credible threat. Their surveillance saw it all that it can hit a moving target 2000km+ back in August 2020 testing.

 

[Suetham]

I just want to refute your assertion that satellite cannot locate a moving target(car) which certainly it can. Because Yaogan is not complete does not mean that it cannot find a target. What it mean is that the coverage is limited to say western pacific . But they keep sending satellite and the persistency and coverage depend on the number of satellite the more satellite mean you have the wider the coverage and more latency.

They still send Yaogan series satellite the last one yesterday

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It use triangulation method to locate the target

As usual, Chinese media refer to the new satellites as being used “for electromagnetic
environment surveys and other related technology tests,” and the mission is similar to the Yaogan-31 Group 01, Group 02, and Group 03 launched on April 10, 2018 and January 29 and February 24, 2021.

This designation of the Yaogan Weixing series is used to hide the true military nature of the satellites. In this case, the three satellites are orbited in a flying formation like a type of NOSS (Naval Ocean Surveillance System, considered as the Jianbing-8 military series.

Designed for locating and tracking foreign warships, the satellites will collect optical and radio electronic signatures of the maritime vessels as well as other information valuable for the Chinese maritime forces.

This satellite arrangement determines the location of radio and radar transmitters using triangulation and can identify naval units by analyzing the operating frequencies and transmission patterns detected.

Command, control, communications, computer, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) support technologies are probably still lagging behind the requirement to identify and track a U.S. aircraft carrier in real time in war conditions.

Satellites can provide maritime situational awareness, which includes detection of vessels in near real time, but they cannot provide validation of target data continuously, this is the task of dedicated ISTAR platforms as I explained earlier.

Improving C4ISR's resources, however, is a high priority in China's military modernization program as well as the various foreign assets capable of acting as target designators.

Even a delay in the position of a satellite to that of a CVN in 5 minutes is enough time for a US aircraft carrier to move a distance of 4.5 km. Now, what is the circular radius of 4.5 km? In order to avoid this delay, an ASBM architecture necessarily needs external actuators to continuously validate the target, thus not leaving the satellites blind.

I am tired of this subject. I will withdraw. Thank you all.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Command, control, communications, computer, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) support technologies are probably still lagging behind the requirement to identify and track a U.S. aircraft carrier in real time in war conditions.

Satellites can provide maritime situational awareness, which includes detection of vessels in near real time, but they cannot provide validation of target data continuously, this is the task of dedicated ISTAR platforms as I explained earlier.

Improving C4ISR's resources, however, is a high priority in China's military modernization program as well as the various foreign assets capable of acting as target designators.

Even a delay in the position of a satellite to that of a CVN in 5 minutes is enough time for a US aircraft carrier to move a distance of 4.5 km. Now, what is the circular radius of 4.5 km? In order to avoid this delay, an ASBM architecture necessarily needs external actuators to continuously validate the target, thus not leaving the satellites blind.

I am tired of this subject. I will withdraw. Thank you all.

And you think that the missile does not have on board sensor How do you explain that cruise missile like YJ12, YJ18, can hit a moving target. Using your theory those missile are all dud. The problem with you is western superiority You don't believe any non white nation can accomplish great technical break thru

 

[Annihilation98]

My best optimistic estimate of China nuclear warheads
DF-5B : 18x5=90
DF-31A/G : 84x1=84
DF-41 : 24x3=72
JL-2 : 48x1=48
DF-26 : 180x1=180
ALBM : 20x1=20
Total: 494

Wrong. DF-26 is primarily conventional. My guess is between 280-320 warhead.

 

[escobar]

Wrong. DF-26 is primarily conventional. My guess is between 280-320 warhead.

Dual-capable

 

[voyager1]

Lmao absolutely mental seeing these comments saying that the missiles are still not that much developed and cant hit a freaking huge carrier lol.

They are also saying things like satellites cant track and cant get targeting data for carriers and other naval assets and they conveniently ignore that basic mathematics of triangulation and other tricks exist. Embarrassing discussion

 

[daifo]

This was discussed long time ago back in August 2020. And besides, the American navy already aknowledges that the Chinese anti ship ballistic missles are credible threat. Their surveillance saw it all that it can hit a moving target 2000km+ back in August 2020 testing.

You guys do know that some of this is disinformation from the US side? Every time the US will make some announcement of losing a simulated battle with china, every chnese supporter cheer around here. They gain advantage if the opponent becomes overconfident or they validate a broken solution as true.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

You guys do know that some of this is disinformation from the US side? Every time the US will make some announcement of losing a simulated battle with china, every chnese supporter cheer around here. They gain advantage if the opponent becomes overconfident or they validate a broken solution as true.

Why should it be disinformation campaign? I think your imagination goes wild about conspiracy. It is matter of confirming a test The Chinese already announce they did ASBM test on August 2020 US has position their surveillance aircraft around the test area. Even without it they monitor any rocket launch from China and around the world using their early warning ballistic missile

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On August 26,

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test fired multiple ballistic missiles, which landed at a site near Hainan and the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. According to Chinese reports, Chinese forces launched one

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from Qinghai in the country’s northwest and one

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ballistic missile from the eastern province of Zhejiang. U.S. intelligence sources later stated that China had fired four medium-range ballistic missiles into the test site. The DF-26B is a ballistic missile with an estimated range of 4,000 km while the DF-21D possesses a range of up to 1,550 km. Both weapons reportedly possess the ability to target moving ships, though live-fire tests against moving ships have not been publicly disclosed.

 

[W20]

"Actually the diagram might not be accurate, the two missiles might in fact have hit the same target simultaneously. I have seen other graphs that show both flights terminating at the same point. It would be logical as it would demonstrate coordination of a saturation attack from multiple rocket force formations"

China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

I doubt there is any technology in foreseeable time to counter this ASBM They have been fiddling with laser gun for 30 years now and all that they can show is laser gun to shoot small tugboat from 5000 feet. In December 2014, the US Navy made a great show of their test of a laser weapon in what...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

one DF-21D and one DF-26B

and the funny thing is that the Americans detected 4 missiles, and that's where the idea comes from that the electronics that guide the head of the missile fly separately

"One theory is this is related to why some media are reporting the test as four missiles, in fact what might be happening is to get around the re-entry radio blackout due to plasma sheath each missile deploys a high drag sensor package behind the warhead. This sensor package rapidly slows down and so is not surrounded by a plasma sheath, it looks for the target then sends the telemetry data to the warhead from its rear where there's no plasma sheath. The warhead then performs terminal guidance based on this data, before it's slowed down enough that it emerges from plasma sheath and then relies on its own onboard sensor. The sensor package also serves as a decoy warhead to confuse missile interceptors"