China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Remember as at 1989, China had about 16 tons HEU for weapons and 1.8 tons weapon grade plutonium .. surely the number is a lot higher in 2018
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The above data ( 1.8T of Pu-239) is based on the next assumptions:
-The two reactor in Jiuquan and Guangyuan has 640 MWt capacity ( the estimate vary between 200-640 MWt )
- the two ractor stoped to work in 1987.
I checked a similar sized thermal power plant without cooling tower in india.
23.6273809,68.7866945
The water intake of the plant is visible on the sat picture.

So, I am not able to found the water intake / discharge of the Guangyuan reactor, or it doesn't work on the satelite pictures.

Of course a thermal picture could clarify it.

But if it doesn't works then why they did refurbishment in 2010?
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The above data ( 1.8T of Pu-239) is based on the next assumptions:
-The two reactor in Jiuquan and Guangyuan has 640 MWt capacity ( the estimate vary between 200-640 MWt )
- the two ractor stoped to work in 1987.
I checked a similar sized thermal power plant without cooling tower in india.
23.6273809,68.7866945
The water intake of the plant is visible on the sat picture.

So, I am not able to found the water intake / discharge of the Guangyuan reactor, or it doesn't work on the satelite pictures.

Of course a thermal picture could clarify it.

But if it doesn't works then why they did refurbishment in 2010?

Exactly, China is not that stupid stop producing Pu-239 while others (including India) do that. I am 100% sure China still producing it with even higher rate .. we just don't know how ;)
 

supercat

Major
DF-16, what kind of warhead are these? Hypersonic:eek:?

IDfj-fyrswmu1961457.jpg
 

supercat

Major
This is peripherally related to China. Remember the concept of a H-6 launched DF-21? It turns out Russia already has such a system. The newly unveiled Kinzhal hypersonic missile is actually a Mig-31 launched ballistic missile, not really an air-breathing, ramjet and scramjet powered hypersonic cruise missile.


Putin Unveils Kinzhal Hypersonic Missile
by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- March 2, 2018, 11:52 AM
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

MiG-31 Bort (side number) 592 takes off clutching the large Kinzhal missile under its belly.

During his address to the Federal Assembly on March 1, Vladimir Putin unveiled a number of new “game-changing” weapons, including what he called “the Kinzhal high-accuracy hypersonic aviation-missile complex.” The Russian president stated that the system had passed its firing trials and had been placed “on duty” in the Southern Military District in December last year. According to Putin, the projectile accelerates to a speed 10 times that of sound and executes evasive maneuvers along its flight trajectory after being dropped from a carrier aircraft. “This enables the missile to penetrate through all existing and projected air defense systems and deliver a nuclear or conventional warhead over a distance in excess of two thousand kilometers [1,080 nm].”

Putin’s statement was accompanied by a short video released by the Russian defense ministry that depicts a MiG-31 taking off with the missile, and later dropping it. The missile’s solid-fuel motor ignites a few seconds after release. The video also contains computer-generated 3D imagery of a MiG-31 executing a strike on warships. The air-launched missile first climbs, and then noses down in the direction of the intended target before diving on to it. Apparently, this kind of trajectory has been selected to harness the weapon’s high kinetics to achieve the longest range possible and ensure high speed at impact. On the following day, the Russian Air and Space Force (VKS) commander, General Sergei Surovikin, added that the system enables stand-off strikes using “the modernized MiG-31 and the highly accurate hypersonic aero-ballistic missile.”

There are several facts about the Kinzhal that can be learned from the video. The launch platform depicted appears to be the very first MiG-31 airframe to have been outfitted with an inflight refueling system, which passed trials in the late 1980s for subsequent adaptation onto the MiG-31B production standard in 1990. Apparently, this particular airframe, side number 592, later underwent considerable modification to its central fuselage section to install a single hardpoint instead of the four standard launchers for R-33 1,080-lb (490-kg) air-to-air missiles.

The missile shown in the video appears to be about 26 feet (8 meters) long, with a central body diameter of around 3.3 feet (1 meter). The span between its stubby wings is around 6.6 feet (2 meters). The shape and dimensions have led some experts to believe that this missile might represent an air-launched version of the 9M723, which was accepted into service in 2004 and is employed by the Iskander-M (NATO: SS-26 “Stone”) tactical strike system that is normally mounted on a wheeled chassis. The 9M723 weighs 8,380 pounds (3,800 kg), has a length of 23.6 feet (7.2 meters) and a maximum diameter of 3 feet (0.92 meters). It carries a 1,058-pound (480-kg) warhead over a maximum distance of 270 nm (500 km). Terminal guidance is provided by the 9E436 optics correlator or 9B318 active radar head. Its maximum speed at the top of a typical fight trajectory is given as 2100 m/sec, which is seven times the speed of sound.

webdpwk10-kinzhal-pic-2.jpg

The Kinzhal weapon drops away from the MiG-31. After a release an aerodynamic fairing covering the missile's exhaust is jettisoned before the motor fires.
While the air-launched missile appears to be of similar length (after its protective tail cone comes off shortly after release from the launching platform), its body is a bit wider. And, if Putin’s figures are right, it flies farther and faster. Therefore, it is believed that the air-launched weapon is likely to have a booster and a detachable self-propelled projectile instead of the single-stage configuration for the 9M723.

The Kinzhal comes as an addition to the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
: the Zircon and the Kh-32. There are some distinct differences between them. The Zircon, which seems to have provided the basis for the Indo-Russian BrahMos II exportable version, represents an air-breathing projectile with large air intake(s) for its scramjet propulsion. Intended primarily for naval platforms, it may also be carried by Tupolev strategic bombers. The latter also serve as launch platforms for the 13,000-pound (6-tonne) Kh-32, which is a reworked Kh-22 Burya missile with a dual-mode engine running on liquid fuel.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
Exactly, China is not that stupid stop producing Pu-239 while others (including India) do that. I am 100% sure China still producing it with even higher rate .. we just don't know how ;)

Plutonium production cannot be hidden because particles always escape and can be easily detected, and not forgetting facilities have quite an big footprint. HEU production is much more simpler and its harder to detect, so it's a go to material for someone manufacturing fissile material in secret.

Why would Chinese use plutonium in an modern weapon anyhow? Great portion of W88/87s yield is generated by the U-235 used in the design... around +200kt out of 475. Some weaponeers predicted that next gen weapons (if cold war had continued) would have been oralloy weapons with yields around 80-300kt.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Plutonium production cannot be hidden because particles always escape and can be easily detected, and not forgetting facilities have quite an big footprint. HEU production is much more simpler and its harder to detect, so it's a go to material for someone manufacturing fissile material in secret.

Why would Chinese use plutonium in an modern weapon anyhow? Great portion of W88/87s yield is generated by the U-235 used in the design... around +200kt out of 475. Some weaponeers predicted that next gen weapons (if cold war had continued) would have been oralloy weapons with yields around 80-300kt.

Are you implying that W88 could be produced without Plutonium but with a lower yield?
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Plutonium production cannot be hidden because particles always escape and can be easily detected, and not forgetting facilities have quite an big footprint. HEU production is much more simpler and its harder to detect, so it's a go to material for someone manufacturing fissile material in secret.

Why would Chinese use plutonium in an modern weapon anyhow? Great portion of W88/87s yield is generated by the U-235 used in the design... around +200kt out of 475. Some weaponeers predicted that next gen weapons (if cold war had continued) would have been oralloy weapons with yields around 80-300kt.
It is quite simple to tell if Cina produce Pu-239 for nuclear weapons, it needs nothing else just a weekly theral image of the Guangyuan plant.

However all report of the plant made by US/Russia and so on would be classified, neither country gave away data about other coutnries weapon programs.

Even the NK nuclear porgram has complet secrecy on all side .

The U-235 is inferrior compared to the pu-239 .

The weapon yield is not dependig on the fissile material used in it, in the modern thermonuclear bombs the released energy depends on the size of secondary/tercier stage.
The fissile material required only for the first stage, to ignite the others.

The proble is if you use u235 then the size of the primary will be bigger and heavy, so the warhead will be big and heavy if you use u235 compared to pu239.

Considering that the weapon carrier systems cost ten-twenty times more than the actual warhead the small saving in warhead cost (if there is any) will be overhsadowed by the increased cost of delicery systems.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
It is quite simple to tell if Cina produce Pu-239 for nuclear weapons, it needs nothing else just a weekly theral image of the Guangyuan plant.

However all report of the plant made by US/Russia and so on would be classified, neither country gave away data about other coutnries weapon programs.

Even the NK nuclear porgram has complet secrecy on all side .

The U-235 is inferrior compared to the pu-239 .

The weapon yield is not dependig on the fissile material used in it, in the modern thermonuclear bombs the released energy depends on the size of secondary/tercier stage.
The fissile material required only for the first stage, to ignite the others.

The proble is if you use u235 then the size of the primary will be bigger and heavy, so the warhead will be big and heavy if you use u235 compared to pu239.

Considering that the weapon carrier systems cost ten-twenty times more than the actual warhead the small saving in warhead cost (if there is any) will be overhsadowed by the increased cost of delicery systems.

I (again) learn something new in this forum, this time is from you. Thank you

Do you know the proportion to get the same yield between PU-239 and U-235? I meant how much U-235 (in kg) to get the same yield of 1 kg of PU-239
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I (again) learn something new in this forum, this time is from you. Thank you

Do you know the proportion to get the same yield between PU-239 and U-235? I meant how much U-235 (in kg) to get the same yield of 1 kg of PU-239
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

U-235 ->52 kg
Pu-239 -> 10kg

This a spherical, normal density sphere, composed of 100% pure material,without netutron reflectors.

In the warhead the chemical high explosives compress the pit, increasing its density, and dramaticaly decrease the critical mass.
Additionaly they using neutron reflectors as well.

So, in the warhead a few kg ( I think 3 kg) pu239 required, but the ratio of pu239 to u235 will be the same.

And if the mass of the pit bigger,then you need more explosive, bigger reflector and casing, so it scaling up the size of the primary stage dramaticaly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top