China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hyperwarp

Captain
can anyone tell the reason of why china has so many ICBM projects (DF-5B, DF-31A, DF-31AG, DF-41)? Seems to me like a waste of resources. they should just pick DF-41 and dump the rest.

DF-5 series including DF-5B will be retired when DF-41 reaches maturity/adequate numbers. Until then those 20 DF-5 are critical. The reason the PLRF have both DF-31A and DF-31AG is because initially the off-road TEL was not available. Since 1999 only the road-mobile version was available (DF-31/31A). Only last year the fully off-road capable TEL for an ICBM (DF-31AG) was publicly displayed. Having DF-31/DF-41 combo is like a J-20/J-10 high-lo mix. Russians will have a similar arrangement with the future RS-28 supplimented by RT-2PM2 and RS-24. Even the US at one time had a LGM-30 and LGM-118 combo. So China have a mixture of DF-31/41 is not unusual. The DF-41 is probabaly a lot more expensive than the DF-31.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Can anyone actually provide the "PLA news article" that was quoted? I went to the official web site here
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and went back and forth around the supposed publication date, I could NOT find the article. "Chinese military paper urges increase in nuclear deterrence capabilities"

The link I provided has photo copies of the paper version which is the real deal.

[Edit]: the original article in PDF format
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The whole article is talking about development of US, Russia's nuclear policy. Except at the very end as "编后" (post edit?)
编后:核武器是悬在人类头 上的“达摩克利斯之剑”,应该全 面禁止并最终彻底销毁,实现无 核世界。中国发展核武器是为了 打破核讹诈,始终恪守不首先使 用核武器“三原则”,最终目标是 为了消灭核武器。但当今世界形 势波诡云谲,为提升我国战略威 慑效能,支撑我国大国地位,维护 我国国家安全,我们必须增强可 信可靠的核威慑和核反击能力, 增强战略制衡能力。

So it is "must improve reliable credible counter capability" that is the only words related to the western media report.

I must say, this is just another twist, exaggeration of "China threat" to justify their ALREADY determined enhancing nuclear arsenal, ESPECIALLY to justify the deployment of THAAD and NMD batteries in Europe and Alaska which has began long before this article. Nothing new really.
 
Last edited:
Can anyone actually provide the "PLA news article" that was quoted? I went to the official web site here
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and went back and forth around the supposed publication date, I could NOT find the article. "Chinese military paper urges increase in nuclear deterrence capabilities"

The link I provided has photo copies of the paper version which is the real deal.

[Edit]: the original article in PDF format
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The whole article is talking about development of US, Russia's nuclear policy. Except at the very end as "编后" (post edit?)


So it is "must improve reliable credible counter capability" that is the only words related to the western media report.

I must say, this is just another twist, exaggeration of "China threat" to justify their ALREADY determined enhancing nuclear arsenal, ESPECIALLY to justify the deployment of THAAD and NMD batteries in Europe and Alaska which has began long before this article. Nothing new really.

There are hawks on every side that can be quoted at any time for any purpose, just as multiple countries have been researching improved nuclear capabilities and missile defense (which forms an inherent enabling part of a pre-emptive nuclear strike capability) for a long time. Fact is the US initiated change on the ground with actually implementing forward based missile defense thereby kicking off this round of the nuclear arms race.
 

timepass

Brigadier
Technological Shock: China becomes the 2nd country after the US to develop an Exo-atmospheric Kill Vehicle, as well as an associated TEL and Sensor Network to carry out a successful mid course interception of an Inter Continental Ballistic Missile System.

27973729_10155693910192663_6105194071076821255_n.jpg


27752395_10155693910282663_8323625608416195097_n.jpg


27858492_10155693910457663_1471302113381101614_n.jpg
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Technological Shock: China becomes the 2nd country after the US to develop an Exo-atmospheric Kill Vehicle, as well as an associated TEL and Sensor Network to carry out a successful mid course interception of an Inter Continental Ballistic Missile System.



27752395_10155693910282663_8323625608416195097_n.jpg


It looks like the 53T6 , sprint or spartan . The midcourse interceptors used by the US fit the standard vertical alunch tubes, it is too big for that.(even for four tubes).

The first stage is massive, looks like it can accelerate fast and (possibly)can push high g turns.As it needed for an endcourse interceptor.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I must say, this is just another twist, exaggeration of "China threat" to justify their ALREADY determined enhancing nuclear arsenal, ESPECIALLY to justify the deployment of THAAD and NMD batteries in Europe and Alaska which has began long before this article. Nothing new really.

Interesting, I checked the two PU239 generating site in China, and as it looks like Jiuquan idle, it using cooling towers, so it would be visible if it works.
The other in Guangyuan received same update in the 2010, maybe a new reactor? There is a chimney next to the biggest new building, and there is a picture in the google earth pro that showing massive internal structure in the builing build prior of the external ceiling/walls( massive) , maybe the grahite moderated breeding reactors?

On the far infrared pictures it should be visible if it works or not ,and the ammount of Pu-239 can be calculated from the ammount of heat.

There were works on the reprocessing facility as well, few new building .
Looks like they running the PU making business, so China pumping outnew warheads.


32°29'41.73" N 105°35'28.89" E
40°13'18.83" N 97°21'28.16" E
Google earth pro will show the history, 2010 is the most important year.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The time line matching all other events.

The US withdrawn from the ABM treaty in 2002, the actual refurbishment /capacity increase of Guangyuan happened in 2010, means 8 years of preparation works ( design , manufacturing, implementation).
China started to MIRV its DF-5 ballistic missiles arund 2015,thats on its own require a lot of new warhead .
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
The time line matching all other events.

The US withdrawn from the ABM treaty in 2002, the actual refurbishment /capacity increase of Guangyuan happened in 2010, means 8 years of preparation works ( design , manufacturing, implementation).
China started to MIRV its DF-5 ballistic missiles arund 2015,thats on its own require a lot of new warhead .

I have no doubt that China is producing Pu and enriched Uranium, the question is how much? Do you know how much?
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I have no doubt that China is producing Pu and enriched Uranium, the question is how much? Do you know how much?
Interesting question, and hard to tell.

The thermal capacity vs yield of PU-239 can be calculated easy, 3 GW thermal capacity can makes 1000-1500 kg of pu-239 in a dedicated weapon material making reactor.
It should be enought for 250-500 warhead/year.

The Guangyuan site has no visible cooling tower, and only a small river.
so, realisticly I think it can evacuate only hundred or less mw thermal energy,unless it using air cooling, but the earlier Jiuquan using water cooling ,so I don't think that they moved to less safe directin on the later design.
so, based on thatI think it can make no more than 10-30 warhead/year. On it own it can means 100-300 more warhead in the past decade
Problems to make precise evaluation:
-no visible water supply points of the complex from the nearest river.
-unknown ammount of available cooling water from the reiver.
-no available thermal image to see the capacity of the complex , and the past of heat evacuation


Of course China made a lot of power plants in the past decade, so they can build new reactor facilities as well in same of those coplexes, and (theroeticaly) hide / cover them with the thermal signature of a conventional plant.

The open litarature show only this much data about the chinese weapon porgram, and there is no available unclassified document from the last decade.

If anyone have access to satelite thermal images for the two facility then it should be easy to calculate the capacity of them.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Interesting question, and hard to tell.

The thermal capacity vs yield of PU-239 can be calculated easy, 3 GW thermal capacity can makes 1000-1500 kg of pu-239 in a dedicated weapon material making reactor.
It should be enought for 250-500 warhead/year.

The Guangyuan site has no visible cooling tower, and only a small river.
so, realisticly I think it can evacuate only hundred or less mw thermal energy,unless it using air cooling, but the earlier Jiuquan using water cooling ,so I don't think that they moved to less safe directin on the later design.
so, based on thatI think it can make no more than 10-30 warhead/year. On it own it can means 100-300 more warhead in the past decade
Problems to make precise evaluation:
-no visible water supply points of the complex from the nearest river.
-unknown ammount of available cooling water from the reiver.
-no available thermal image to see the capacity of the complex , and the past of heat evacuation


Of course China made a lot of power plants in the past decade, so they can build new reactor facilities as well in same of those coplexes, and (theroeticaly) hide / cover them with the thermal signature of a conventional plant.

The open litarature show only this much data about the chinese weapon porgram, and there is no available unclassified document from the last decade.

If anyone have access to satelite thermal images for the two facility then it should be easy to calculate the capacity of them.

Remember as at 1989, China had about 16 tons HEU for weapons and 1.8 tons weapon grade plutonium .. surely the number is a lot higher in 2018
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top