China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
A multiple warhead test is confirmed by US intelligence. If this is true significant estimate need to be revised. I did posted the NOTAM in January
China Tests Missile With 10 Warheads
Multi-warhead weapon tested amid growing tensions with the United States
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January 31, 2017 5:00 am

China flight tested a new variant of a long-range missile with 10 warheads in what defense officials say represents a dramatic shift in Beijing's strategic nuclear posture.

The flight test of the DF-5C missile was carried out earlier this month using 10 multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles, or MIRVs. The test of the inert warheads was monitored closely by U.S. intelligence agencies, said two officials familiar with reports of the missile test.

The missile was fired from the Taiyuan Space Launch Center in central China and flew to an impact range in the western Chinese desert.


No other details about the test could be learned. Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Gary Ross suggested in a statement the test was monitored.

"The [Defense Department] routinely monitors Chinese military developments and accounts for PLA capabilities in our defense plans," Ross told the Washington Free Beacon.

DF-5launch-1.jpeg

JL1-launch

The test of a missile with 10 warheads is significant because it indicates the secretive Chinese military is increasing the number of warheads in its arsenal.

Estimates of China's nuclear arsenal for decades put the number of strategic warheads at the relatively low level of around 250 warheads.

U.S. intelligence agencies in February
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that China had begun adding warheads to older DF-5 missiles, in a move that has raised concerns for strategic war planners.

Uploading Chinese missiles from single or triple warhead configurations to up to 10 warheads means the number of warheads stockpiled is orders of magnitude larger than the 250 estimate.

Currently, U.S. nuclear forces—land-based and sea-based nuclear missiles and bombers—have been configured to deter Russia's growing nuclear forces and the smaller Chinese nuclear force.

Under the 2010 U.S.-Russian arms treaty, the United States is slated to reduce its nuclear arsenal to 1,550 deployed warheads.

A boost in the Chinese nuclear arsenal to 800 or 1,000 warheads likely would prompt the Pentagon to increase the U.S. nuclear warhead arsenal by taking weapons out of storage.

The new commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, Air Force Gen. John Hyten, stated during a Senate confirmation hearing in September that he is concerned about China's growing nuclear arsenal.

"I am fully aware that China continues to modernize its nuclear missile force and is striving for a secure second-strike capability," Hyten told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Although it continues to profess a ‘no first use' doctrine, China is re-engineering its long-range ballistic missiles to carry multiple nuclear warheads and continues to develop and test hyper-glide vehicle technologies," Hyten added.

"These developments—coupled with a lack of transparency on nuclear issues such as force disposition and size—may impact regional and strategic stability and are cause for continued vigilance and concern."

The 10-warhead missile test comes amid heightened tensions with China. State-run media in recent weeks has carried reports calling for China to expand its nuclear forces. A broadcast report showed that new long-range mobile missiles could strike the entire United States.

The Chinese state television channel CCTV-4 last week broadcast nuclear threats, including graphics showing new DF-41 missiles deployed in northern China and graphics showing the missiles' strike path into the United States. The Jan. 25 broadcast included a graphic of a 10-warhead MIRV bus for the DF-41.

CCTV-warheads.jpg


The Chinese Communist Party propaganda newspaper Global Times, known for its anti-U.S. stance, issued stark calls for China to build up its nuclear arsenal for use against the United States. On Jan. 24, the newspaper said China's strategic forces "must be so strong that no country would dare launch a military showdown."

"China must procure a level of strategic military strength that will force the U.S. to respect it," the newspaper said.

The same state-run organ criticized President Donald Trump in an article on Dec. 8 and said China should use its wealth "to build more strategic nuclear arms and accelerate the deployment of the DF-41 intercontinental ballistic missile."

"We need to get better prepared militarily regarding the Taiwan question to ensure that those who advocate Taiwan's independence will be punished, and take precautions in case of U.S. provocations in the South China Sea," the newspaper said.


China
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a flight test of the DF-41 in April.

Trump in December called for boosting America's aging nuclear arsenal.

"The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes," he stated in a tweet.

Military analysts said the large number of warheads is unusual for the Chinese nuclear program.

Rick Fisher, an analyst with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the multi-warhead missile test appears to be aimed at sending a signal to the new Trump administration.

Trump has tangled with China in opposing its military buildup on disputed South China Sea islands and on U.S. policy toward Taiwan, which Beijing regards as a renegade province and not an independent country.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the United States is prepared to block China's access to reclaimed islands he said are located in international waters and not China's sovereign maritime domain.

"This test of the 10-warhead DF-5C is China's latest nuclear intimidation exercise aimed at the new Trump administration," Fisher said.

"China's nuclear intimidation signals have included the public revelation in late December via Chinese websites of the new DF-41 ICBM in Heilongjiang province, plus articles in China's state-controlled media touting the need for China to increase its nuclear forces to intimidate Washington," Fisher added.

China's known force of around 20 D-5 missiles were deployed with large single warheads in the past, while some were upgraded with three-warhead top stages.

In September 2015 China revealed for the first time during a military parade that it had deployed a new DF-5B multi-warhead missile. Unofficial published reports suggested the DF-5B carries between six and eight warheads.

"The revelation that China has tested a new version of the DF-5 carrying ten warheads constitutes a very strong indication that China has produced a smaller warhead to equip its MIRV-capable ICBMs," Fisher said.

Some analysts speculate that the recent test of the DF-5C used the older missile as a test platform for a new warhead delivery bus that will be used on the new DF-41.

French China watcher Henri Kenhmann reported on his website East Pendulum that a Chinese missile test was to be carried out Jan. 15, based on air closure notices issued by the Chinese government for areas around Taiyuan and a missile impact range in western Xinjiang Province.

Analysis of the impact range suggests the test would include multiple test warheads.

"The point of impact is located south of the Taklamakan desert, in the former ballistic range of Minfeng," Kenhmann said, noting the Chinese had imposed an unusually large air exclusion zone of 125 miles around the impact zone.

"It should be noted that this zone of ballistic impact is abnormally large," he stated, a sign the large area would be used for multiple dummy warheads.


‘The size of this impact zone could indicate testing several MIRVs," he said.

A similar Chinese test of the DF-41 in April involved two MIRVs that were fired to a much smaller impact area of 60 miles by 37 miles.

The Pentagon's latest annual report on the Chinese military said Beijing continues to upgrade its nuclear forces by enhancing silo-based missiles and adding new road-mobile missiles.

"China’s ICBM arsenal to date consists of approximately 75 to 100 ICBMs, including the silo-based CSS-4 Mod 2 (DF-5) and multiple independently-targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV)-equipped Mod 3 (DF-5B); the solid-fueled, road-mobile CSS-10 Mod 1 and 2 (DF-31 and DF-31A); and the shorter range CSS-3 (DF-4)," the report said.

The DF-5 is a two-stage, liquid-fueled missile with a range of around 8,000 miles.
 
Last edited:

weig2000

Captain
A multiple warhead test is confirmed by US intelligence. If this is true significant estimate need to be revised. I did posted the NOTAM in January
China Tests Missile With 10 Warheads
Multi-warhead weapon tested amid growing tensions with the United States
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


BY:
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January 31, 2017 5:00 am

China flight tested a new variant of a long-range missile with 10 warheads in what defense officials say represents a dramatic shift in Beijing's strategic nuclear posture.

The flight test of the DF-5C missile was carried out earlier this month using 10 multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles, or MIRVs. The test of the inert warheads was monitored closely by U.S. intelligence agencies, said two officials familiar with reports of the missile test.

The missile was fired from the Taiyuan Space Launch Center in central China and flew to an impact range in the western Chinese desert.


No other details about the test could be learned. Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Gary Ross suggested in a statement the test was monitored.

"The [Defense Department] routinely monitors Chinese military developments and accounts for PLA capabilities in our defense plans," Ross told the Washington Free Beacon.

DF-5launch-1.jpeg

JL1-launch

The test of a missile with 10 warheads is significant because it indicates the secretive Chinese military is increasing the number of warheads in its arsenal.

Estimates of China's nuclear arsenal for decades put the number of strategic warheads at the relatively low level of around 250 warheads.

U.S. intelligence agencies in February
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that China had begun adding warheads to older DF-5 missiles, in a move that has raised concerns for strategic war planners.

Uploading Chinese missiles from single or triple warhead configurations to up to 10 warheads means the number of warheads stockpiled is orders of magnitude larger than the 250 estimate.

Currently, U.S. nuclear forces—land-based and sea-based nuclear missiles and bombers—have been configured to deter Russia's growing nuclear forces and the smaller Chinese nuclear force.

Under the 2010 U.S.-Russian arms treaty, the United States is slated to reduce its nuclear arsenal to 1,550 deployed warheads.

A boost in the Chinese nuclear arsenal to 800 or 1,000 warheads likely would prompt the Pentagon to increase the U.S. nuclear warhead arsenal by taking weapons out of storage.

....


.

I believe China's nuclear deterrence policy is currently under review, if not already. The official minimum deterrence policy has been increasingly out of sync with reality, in terms of international security environment, China's strategic requirements, as well as China's vastly improving capabilities.

The ex-USSR/Russia has been providing the strategic balance and stability. But this balance is under a lot of stress due to Russia's poor economy and her capability to continue to invest and maintain a large nuclear deterrence force. If Russia gradually falls behind in her strategic capability, the world will become increasingly dangerous and perilous for China and most other countries if the strategic balance becomes heavily one-sided, as we can witness some of recent uneasy developments.

China used to be able to hide behind the US or USSR/Russia's deterrence balance, with only a minimum deterrence policy to leverage the balance. With China's increasingly stake in a peaceful and stable international environment, free of bully and coerce against her, and Russia's gradual falling behind, China needs to step up and substantially increase her strategic capability, for herself and for the world at large. While many people in China has started to realize this, a lot of Chinese still has the mentality of "hiding behind the giants." Talking about being a responsible stakeholder in the international system, this really should really be part of it.

With China's vastly improved capabilities, both financial and technical, it's feasible now for China to assess the strategic threat environment and change her strategic deterrence policy to a more credible one. Specifically, in the next 10- 15 years, China needs to develop a new generation of heavy liquid-fuel MIRV ICBM to replace the current aging DF-5/5B, with at least 10 warheads. The road/railroad mobile DF-41, likely having 3-6 MIRV war heads, should be deployed in large numbers asap. The next-generation SLBM, JL-3, currently under development with much improved range and payloads, should be developed and deployed on the next-gen Type 096 SSBN during the time period. The long-range strategic stealth bomber H-10/H-X, also currently under development, will obviously be capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

China should aim for a capable nuclear triad in her next-generation strategic deterrence weapons and delivery platforms, with minimum 1000-warheads, during the next 10-15 years.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
With China's vastly improved capabilities, both financial and technical, it's feasible now for China to assess the strategic threat environment and change her strategic deterrence policy to a more credible one. Specifically, in the next 10- 15 years, China needs to develop a new generation of heavy liquid-fuel MIRV ICBM to replace the current aging DF-5/5B, with at least 10 warheads. The road/railroad mobile DF-41, likely having 3-6 MIRV war heads, should be deployed in large numbers asap. The next-generation SLBM, JL-3, currently under development with much improved range and payloads, should be developed and deployed on the next-gen Type 096 SSBN during the time period. The long-range strategic stealth bomber H-10/H-X, also currently under development, will obviously be capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

China should aim for a capable nuclear triad in her next-generation strategic deterrence weapons and delivery platforms, with minimum 1000-warheads, during the next 10-15 years.
I think liquid-fueled ICBMs are a thing of the past. Newer generation missiles are all solid-fueled for ease of transportability and concealability. The TEL-based DF-41 along with a newer JL-3 and nuclear capable CJ-10/20 along with the stealth bomber to deliver it is all China needs for a nuclear triad.
 

weig2000

Captain
I think liquid-fueled ICBMs are a thing of the past. Newer generation missiles are all solid-fueled for ease of transportability and concealability. The TEL-based DF-41 along with a newer JL-3 and nuclear capable CJ-10/20 along with the stealth bomber to deliver it is all China needs for a nuclear triad.

In general, I would agree with you. The only reason I think a liquid-fueled heavy ICBM still makes sense for China is because China has already made substantial investment in the various facilitates to support liquid-fueedl ICBM (DF-5/5B etc.) over the last few decades. The DF-5/5B's are based on old LM-2 technologies while China has made significant progress in newer and better liquid-fuel rocket technologies in the last decade. The incremental cost would be relatively small if China leverages the existing facilities and technologies. The new-generation liquid-fueled heavy MIRV ICBM's will be deployed on fixed-sites; probably no more than twenty missiles are needed, with 10-warheads each.

The alternatives would be a) develop a new heavy solid-fueled ICBM (heavier than DF-41, which is mobile) or b) completely retire DF-5/5B over time. Either option is not ideal: the former would require substantial investments; the latter waste the significant sunk cost in the existing program and forsaking another avenue of deterrence capability.
 
China needs to improve both offense and defense to maintain a strategic balance. So in addition to what's already been said about the nukes themselves and delivery systems they also need to make significant advances in BMD.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
In general, I would agree with you. The only reason I think a liquid-fueled heavy ICBM still makes sense for China is because China has already made substantial investment in the various facilitates to support liquid-fueedl ICBM (DF-5/5B etc.) over the last few decades. The DF-5/5B's are based on old LM-2 technologies while China has made significant progress in newer and better liquid-fuel rocket technologies in the last decade. The incremental cost would be relatively small if China leverages the existing facilities and technologies. The new-generation liquid-fueled heavy MIRV ICBM's will be deployed on fixed-sites; probably no more than twenty missiles are needed, with 10-warheads each.

The alternatives would be a) develop a new heavy solid-fueled ICBM (heavier than DF-41, which is mobile) or b) completely retire DF-5/5B over time. Either option is not ideal: the former would require substantial investments; the latter waste the significant sunk cost in the existing program and forsaking another avenue of deterrence capability.
IMO really the only infrastructure developed for the DF-5 that would still be relevant for the DF-41 is the underground Great Wall. The problem with the silo infrastructure in China's case is that there are too few silos, making them too easily targetable by the US. The only thing keeping the US from taking these out in a first strike is the possibility that the US may not have found all of them. It is not a very strategically tenable position if what you're doing is hoping that the US didn't find all your silos so that you can launch maybe one or two F-U revenge nukes against the US just as most of your major cities are being incinerated, and if the US ever decides that the cost of a couple US cities is worth the near-total destruction of China, it may be willing to make this trade. The fact that it was better than nothing is all that China could count on at the time; but no longer.

If China's nuclear defense posture is going to be a "limited deterrence" (one step up from "minimal deterrence"), its arsenal must remain hidden and mobile as much as possible. This means underground, road, off-road, and rail movement. Perfect for a smaller solid-fueled missile like the DF-41. Note that the DF-41 is extremely similar in specs to the US Peacekeeper (size, weight, range), also a solid-fueled missile. I'm not sure China needs a larger missile than the DF-41, because this missile's destructive capability is no less than the Peacekeeper, a missile that was retired by the US as part of START II talks because of its massively destructive capabilities (which had become utterly wasted by START II's imposition of a single warhead per missile). Fortunately for China it is not a party to any of these talks and can fully pack each DF-41 with 10 warheads. Keep several dozen of these roaming around underground and hidden in train cars and the US will have a far larger headache on its hands than merely having to take out the vast majority of DF-5 silos as a prelude to total war. It would not be able to find most or even all of them if hidden in this way. Scatter a few dozen more along China's thousands of km of highway and the nightmare for the US truly begins. We are no longer talking about a few warheads reaching the continental US, but rather a few hundred warheads. I think such a number would give even someone like Trump significant pause, enough to make him take his hand off the button as much as Russia would.
 

KIENCHIN

Junior Member
Registered Member
In general, I would agree with you. The only reason I think a liquid-fueled heavy ICBM still makes sense for China is because China has already made substantial investment in the various facilitates to support liquid-fueedl ICBM (DF-5/5B etc.) over the last few decades. The DF-5/5B's are based on old LM-2 technologies while China has made significant progress in newer and better liquid-fuel rocket technologies in the last decade. The incremental cost would be relatively small if China leverages the existing facilities and technologies. The new-generation liquid-fueled heavy MIRV ICBM's will be deployed on fixed-sites; probably no more than twenty missiles are needed, with 10-warheads each.

The alternatives would be a) develop a new heavy solid-fueled ICBM (heavier than DF-41, which is mobile) or b) completely retire DF-5/5B over time. Either option is not ideal: the former would require substantial investments; the latter waste the significant sunk cost in the existing program and forsaking another avenue of deterrence capability.
Liquid fuel silo base missile would never survive long enough to retaliate. Unlike solid fuel missiles, liquid fuel missile sit in their silo unfueled and would need to be fueled up for launch by which time whatever silos that survive would have been subject to another strike. The only good about China's silo based missile is to act as a trip wire that atrracts a first strike attack. To pour more money into these old technology does not make sense. The possibilty that the DF5 just tested maybe to test the multiple warhead buss for the DF41 kinda make sense since it maybe the chinese using up these missile before they are phased out.
 

Franklin

Captain
Aside from the DF-41 China has another MIRV capable ICBM. The DF-5C with 10 warheads was tested recently.

China Tests Missile With 10 Warheads

Multi-warhead weapon tested amid growing tensions with the United States

China flight tested a new variant of a long-range missile with 10 warheads in what defense officials say represents a dramatic shift in Beijing's strategic nuclear posture.

The flight test of the DF-5C missile was carried out earlier this month using 10 multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles, or MIRVs. The test of the inert warheads was monitored closely by U.S. intelligence agencies, said two officials familiar with reports of the missile test.

The missile was fired from the Taiyuan Space Launch Center in central China and flew to an impact range in the western Chinese desert.

No other details about the test could be learned. Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Gary Ross suggested in a statement the test was monitored.

"The [Defense Department] routinely monitors Chinese military developments and accounts for PLA capabilities in our defense plans," Ross told the Washington Free Beacon.

DF-5C launch

The test of a missile with 10 warheads is significant because it indicates the secretive Chinese military is increasing the number of warheads in its arsenal.

Estimates of China's nuclear arsenal for decades put the number of strategic warheads at the relatively low level of around 250 warheads.

U.S. intelligence agencies in February reported that China had begun adding warheads to older DF-5 missiles, in a move that has raised concerns for strategic war planners.

Uploading Chinese missiles from single or triple warhead configurations to up to 10 warheads means the number of warheads stockpiled is orders of magnitude larger than the 250 estimate.

Currently, U.S. nuclear forces—land-based and sea-based nuclear missiles and bombers—have been configured to deter Russia's growing nuclear forces and the smaller Chinese nuclear force.

Under the 2010 U.S.-Russian arms treaty, the United States is slated to reduce its nuclear arsenal to 1,550 deployed warheads.

A boost in the Chinese nuclear arsenal to 800 or 1,000 warheads likely would prompt the Pentagon to increase the U.S. nuclear warhead arsenal by taking weapons out of storage.

The new commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, Air Force Gen. John Hyten, stated during a Senate confirmation hearing in September that he is concerned about China's growing nuclear arsenal.

"I am fully aware that China continues to modernize its nuclear missile force and is striving for a secure second-strike capability," Hyten told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Although it continues to profess a ‘no first use' doctrine, China is re-engineering its long-range ballistic missiles to carry multiple nuclear warheads and continues to develop and test hyper-glide vehicle technologies," Hyten added.

"These developments — coupled with a lack of transparency on nuclear issues such as force disposition and size — may impact regional and strategic stability and are cause for continued vigilance and concern."

The 10-warhead missile test comes amid heightened tensions with China. State-run media in recent weeks has carried reports calling for China to expand its nuclear forces. A broadcast report showed that new long-range mobile missiles could strike the entire United States.

The Chinese state television channel CCTV-4 last week broadcast nuclear threats, including graphics showing new DF-41 missiles deployed in northern China and graphics showing the missiles' strike path into the United States. The Jan. 25 broadcast included a graphic of a 10-warhead MIRV bus for the DF-41.

cctv-warheads

The Chinese Communist Party propaganda newspaper Global Times, known for its anti-U.S. stance, issued stark calls for China to build up its nuclear arsenal for use against the United States. On Jan. 24, the newspaper said China's strategic forces "must be so strong that no country would dare launch a military showdown."

"China must procure a level of strategic military strength that will force the U.S. to respect it," the newspaper said.

The same state-run organ criticized President Donald Trump in an article on Dec. 8 and said China should use its wealth "to build more strategic nuclear arms and accelerate the deployment of the DF-41 intercontinental ballistic missile."

"We need to get better prepared militarily regarding the Taiwan question to ensure that those who advocate Taiwan's independence will be punished, and take precautions in case of U.S. provocations in the South China Sea," the newspaper said.

China conducted a flight test of the DF-41 in April.

Trump in December called for boosting America's aging nuclear arsenal.

"The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes," he stated in a tweet.

Military analysts said the large number of warheads is unusual for the Chinese nuclear program.

Rick Fisher, an analyst with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the multi-warhead missile test appears to be aimed at sending a signal to the new Trump administration.

Trump has tangled with China in opposing its military buildup on disputed South China Sea islands and on U.S. policy toward Taiwan, which Beijing regards as a renegade province and not an independent country.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the United States is prepared to block China's access to reclaimed islands he said are located in international waters and not China's sovereign maritime domain.

"This test of the 10-warhead DF-5C is China's latest nuclear intimidation exercise aimed at the new Trump administration," Fisher said.

"China's nuclear intimidation signals have included the public revelation in late December via Chinese websites of the new DF-41 ICBM in Heilongjiang province, plus articles in China's state-controlled media touting the need for China to increase its nuclear forces to intimidate Washington," Fisher added.

China's known force of around 20 D-5 missiles were deployed with large single warheads in the past, while some were upgraded with three-warhead top stages.

In September 2015 China revealed for the first time during a military parade that it had deployed a new DF-5B multi-warhead missile. Unofficial published reports suggested the DF-5B carries between six and eight warheads.

"The revelation that China has tested a new version of the DF-5 carrying ten warheads constitutes a very strong indication that China has produced a smaller warhead to equip its MIRV-capable ICBMs," Fisher said.

Some analysts speculate that the recent test of the DF-5C used the older missile as a test platform for a new warhead delivery bus that will be used on the new DF-41.

French China watcher Henri Kenhmann reported on his website East Pendulum that a Chinese missile test was to be carried out Jan. 15, based on air closure notices issued by the Chinese government for areas around Taiyuan and a missile impact range in western Xinjiang Province.

Analysis of the impact range suggests the test would include multiple test warheads.

"The point of impact is located south of the Taklamakan desert, in the former ballistic range of Minfeng," Kenhmann said, noting the Chinese had imposed an unusually large air exclusion zone of 125 miles around the impact zone.

"It should be noted that this zone of ballistic impact is abnormally large," he stated, a sign the large area would be used for multiple dummy warheads.

‘The size of this impact zone could indicate testing several MIRVs," he said.

A similar Chinese test of the DF-41 in April involved two MIRVs that were fired to a much smaller impact area of 60 miles by 37 miles.

The Pentagon's latest annual report on the Chinese military said Beijing continues to upgrade its nuclear forces by enhancing silo-based missiles and adding new road-mobile missiles.

"China’s ICBM arsenal to date consists of approximately 75 to 100 ICBMs, including the silo-based CSS-4 Mod 2 (DF-5) and multiple independently-targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV)-equipped Mod 3 (DF-5B); the solid-fueled, road-mobile CSS-10 Mod 1 and 2 (DF-31 and DF-31A); and the shorter range CSS-3 (DF-4)," the report said.

The DF-5 is a two-stage, liquid-fueled missile with a range of around 8,000 miles.

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