China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[TerraN_EmpirE]

What missile technology gap? The US couldn't even replicate China's DF-21D ASBM and the current success development of China's WU-14 HGV. If you talking nuclear missiles with MRVs warheads launched from a submarine, that's where the US is ahead of China. Other than that, China has developed their program pretty well.

Equation, do you have any links regarding a American Military Antiship ballistic missile program? I am not aware of one. Closest I can think of the Long Range Anti Ship Missile System but even that is not a DF21 clone. Each national defense program has its strengths and weaknesses no two are precisely identical. To my knowledge the US has little actual need of a DF21D.

 

[broadsword]

Equation only made a tongue-in-cheek reply about something that makes the CVN check under their bed.

 

[Broccoli]

I'm still wondering if new Chinese warheads are using HEU or plutonium primaries because we never have gotten any info about that, but size of the DF-31 RV would suggest that they are using HEU. PRC is also manufacturing and opening new centrifuge plants while all the plutonium production facilities were closed down long time ago.


We know that PRC is very good when it comes to nuclear weapon technology so they are most likely in "high" technical capability level. Amount of HEU needed for each primary is not unreasonably high.

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I have a feeling that HEU is a lot more important to modern warheads than what they are letting public to know.

The W-87 Peacekeeper warhead (to be redeployed on the Minuteman-III) has a current yield of 300 kt, that can be increased to 475 kt by adding a HEU sleeve or rings to the secondary. Whether this represents an actual addition to the existing secondary, or whether it replaces an existing unenriched sleeve is not known. The W-88 Trident warhead is a closely related design, and has a current yield of 475 kt indicating that it is already equipped with this addition. The 175 kt yield difference amounts to the complete fission of 10 kg of U-235.

Now, once one considers using substantial amounts of HEU in the secondary, the question of why the fusion fuel is needed at all arises. The answer: it probably is not essential. The idea of imploding fissile material is what set Stanislaw Ulam on the path to that led eventually to thermonuclear weapons. But with the availability of large amounts of HEU, and the trend toward smaller weapon yields (compared to the multimegaton behemoths of the fifties), the Ulam's idea of using radiation implosion to create a light weight high-efficiency pure fission weapon returns as a viable possibility. It is an interesting question whether all modern strategic nuclear weapons *are* in fact thermonuclear devices!

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[antiterror13]

I thought whether PU or HEU was only a trigger for H-Bomb and the most power comes from nuclear fusion reaction, and not from nuclear fission. It's basically Teller-Ulam design for both US and Chinese warhead

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luckily or unfortunately (it depends who you talk to) Chinese warhead design is already so advanced since mid/late 90s, at par with W88

 

[Broccoli]

I thought whether PU or HEU was only a trigger for H-Bomb and the most power comes from nuclear fusion reaction, and not from nuclear fission. It's basically Teller-Ulam design for both US and Chinese warhead

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luckily or unfortunately (it depends who you talk to) Chinese warhead design is already so advanced since mid/late 90s, at par with W88

I too always thought that U-235 was important only as material for primary used to trigger the secondary (PRC used U-235 primary in first TN weapon) and in few others parts of the weapon but apparently U-235 plays much larger part in modern weapons like the W87.

Classic Teller-Ulam design was probably seen as outdated when US was going for W88 and W87 type weapons... significant portion of the yield in those weapons apparently comes from fission instead of fusion reaction.

Or as the article on thermonuclear weapons suggests modern weapons don't necessarily need the fusion secondary at all.

Now, once one considers using substantial amounts of HEU in the secondary, the question of why the fusion fuel is needed at all arises. The answer: it probably is not essential.

 

[antiterror13]

I too always thought that U-235 was important only as material for primary used to trigger the secondary (PRC used U-235 primary in first TN weapon) and in few others parts of the weapon but apparently U-235 plays much larger part in modern weapons like the W87.

Classic Teller-Ulam design was probably seen as outdated when US was going for W88 and W87 type weapons... significant portion of the yield in those weapons apparently comes from fission instead of fusion reaction.

Or as the article on thermonuclear weapons suggests modern weapons don't necessarily need the fusion secondary at all.

very interesting ... I didn't realise that

 

[Broccoli]

very interesting ... I didn't realise that

There is also rumor what claims that Chinese invented their own variation of the Teller-Ulam design but perhaps someone here knows more about it.

 

[Engineer]

There is also rumor what claims that Chinese invented their own variation of the Teller-Ulam design but perhaps someone here knows more about it.

Teller-Ulam design refers to the specific configuration developed by the US. So, even though the physics may work the same, other inventions are not Teller-Ulam design by definition. The Chinese configuration is called Yu-Deng design, but there is no other information beyond that. Supposedly, the French also uses the Yu-Deng design.

 

[antiterror13]

Teller-Ulam design refers to the specific configuration developed by the US. So, even though the physics may work the same, other inventions are not Teller-Ulam design by definition. The Chinese configuration is called Yu-Deng design, but there is no other information beyond that. Supposedly, the French also uses the Yu-Deng design.

really? I know the French detonated the H-bomb roughly 14 months after the Chinese (June 1967 vs Aug 1968), but I would be extremely surprised if the French used Chinese design. China in 1967 was a very backward and poor country.

My understanding is India hasn't got H-bomb yet, at least the last test in 1998 (Shakti-1) was not convincingly H-bomb, even they claimed it was ... anybody knows?

 

[Engineer]

really? I know the French detonated the H-bomb roughly 14 months after the Chinese (June 1967 vs Aug 1968), but I would be extremely surprised if the French used Chinese design. China in 1967 was a very backward and poor country.

There are differences between an experimental design and one that is weaponized. The rumor may be related to that. Anyway, it's just a rumor. And yes, China was very backward and poor country then, with nothing to sell except nuclear weapon designs.