China and India relationship

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Xizor

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Absolutely not. 1980s-1990s China had backbone, a plan... And already higher literacy and life expectancy.

India = late Qing. Same famine, illiteracy, superstition, lack of organization, foreign worshipping, etc.

Late Qing also bought the best foreign steel battleships from Germany and Britain for the Beiyang fleet... What was their fate?
I disagree.

Let's not cloud the visions regarding countries that may or may not be rivals/adversaries of China. That is also apparently a trait of the lambasted late Qing China.

India isn't as weak as many think. It isn't as strong as Jai Hind thinks about India either. It's prospects usually get hyped up several notches by western press as well as Indians themselves, in part, to counter the Authoritarian China miracle. But even then, it's growth is going to be there ( 4-5 %). China is looking at a slow growing, developing Indian rival.
 

hashtagpls

Senior Member
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To be fair, I think India is helpless in this regard. The lack of human resources and effective human development is showing in its Comprehensive National Strength and progress.
The reason why India couldn't break into the higher technology echelons is because of this. It is not that India doesn't want Technology independence but it doesn't have the resources to seize independence. Imagine the situation of China during the 1970, 1980s. To me, India is a country that is locked in the 1980-1990 era of China.

India absolutely adores, aspires the Chinese closed internet / planned economy / development model ( even though they speak down the "CCP-oppression-model" every chance they can get) . Few months back, there was a battle with Twitter and Facebook India over censorship and censorship criterias and there was noticeable churning of online sentiments against Foreign companies - a breath of Fresh air for any Asian who aspires for self development and independence for any non-western country.

But it is to be noted that India can't do much other than give light rebukes to these foreign companies. I can't name a single Indian software company of worth and name despite the country boasting itself to be a software power. It faces dire brain drain, lack of quality human resources and shoddy mobilization. In certain ways, India is looking and trying to learn from China's pursuit of full spectrum Technology independence.

We must remember that China spent three decades doing hard dirty labor for the Global Consumerist Trade Enterprise. India believes it can too create a miracle - the miracle of Ganges - by seizing and riding the next unknown wave of wealth creation. I won't fault it. But whereas China managed to keep silent and maneuver gracefully ( in hindsight) towards the goal, without sacrificing its core dignities/ interests and sovereignty, India seems to be turning into another cheerleader and "Ally" of some western countries. It has signed military alliances/ deals and is willingly becoming a partner (of sorts) in the activities of certain western countries.

That is sad. It is sad not just for Asians but for the world in general. India, I believe, want a multipolar world where India alone is the regional hegemon in Asia / Eastern Hemisphere. The current ruling class of India is a right wing enterprise whose ideologies regarding Race, religion, culture etc is questionable. Forget the "certain countries" in the west questioning it seriously. An Eastern hemisphere dominated by such an India with such unique ideological inclinations is certainly a far more dangerous prospect than the "evil communist Chinese technocrat authoritarians".
I'm more damning to the Indians precisely because they also suffered as victims of colonialism and yet their response to being victimised and oppressed is to turn around and want to join and become part of the oppressors and colonisers.

If that is not the ultimate betrayal, i don't know what is.

These indians move all of their assets, family and wealth to the anglosphere and then cajole and call for india to make war with China whilst they sit in relative safety and luxury, sparing nary a thought for the under castes who will fight and die in their stead. They create a myth of a Mighty India similar to white nationalists concocting an aryan super-civilisation and base their egos of such tripe; that in itself is not wrong but then they use it to be absolutely racist and spiteful towards Chinese and east Asians.

And it didn't have to be like that; look at Bangladesh's relationship with China, look at Sri Lanka. That's what India could have become, instead we get "WE ARE READY TO DIE FOR YOU SUH!!" for the anglos.

The Anglos ill never transfer technology to india, they've learnt that lesson from China.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The comments on that Twitter thread are infested with Jai Hind delusions not so dissimilar from one of the forumers who used to post so much about India being the all conquering nation. Some of them are even claiming that China stole the land of Uyghurs? Lol I really don't understand where this idiotic drivel comes from and the scary part is that they are even being spewed by military folks
 

FairAndUnbiased

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There's something bizarre going on in India. Economic indicators are slowly going up but a big public health measurement like height going down at India's current level of development?
Smoke and mirrors. India is a nation in relative decline. Their GDP vs China has decreased from 1/3 to 1/5 in the past 10 years.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Smoke and mirrors. India is a nation in relative decline. Their GDP vs China has decreased from 1/3 to 1/5 in the past 10 years.
Or maybe there is unequal distribution of wealth. The wealth generated in India over the two decades went to a small section of the population.

Not a very surprising finding since such a phenomenon exists in many developing countries including China ( or even in developed countries like US). In China's case, the government has more tools at its disposal to combat it due to its unique political and economic reality - "communists" getting money to spend creates weird and surprising outcomes.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
The new/current Indian administration's goal is to use Hindutva as a unifying force. One that accomplishes two main tasks (it hopes) - cementing a sense of unity which slowly destroys the previous underlying division within Indian society and to provide a distractions using hyper nationalism. I would say that India's current nationalism is about as intense and extreme has Nazi Germany's in the 1930s. China has strong nationalism like the US and Australia and so on but India's is certainly above the rest. This nationalism is useful in "distraction" strategy. Make the people regard themselves are better and remove ability to think and accurate measure, remove the ability to be self critical but that's done regardless in the shadows where their government knows reality and is actively dealing with it e.g. attempts to progress economy industries and so on. It just isn't able to do it as effectively if everyone, especially intelligent citizens don't have an accurate picture of reality and live on slogans and jingoism. I know this applies to nearly all countries but India is especially intense.

It's the only nation where average height has decreased by that much over the last few years and where GINI is in relative decline in terms of wealth parity. It's the only nation where the government allows thousands upon thousands to die from walking 1000km + without any transportation and needing to cover that distance quickly. Progress is snail's pace and in many regards even backwards since their population is climbing but resources are becoming more expensive and is set to become many folds more expensive in coming decades. They will have Earth's greatest accumulation of intense poverty and humanitarian disasters as water, energy, and food become increasingly out of reach (more so as a rate than the measly 5% or so growth). The real owners of the world hold onto the means of determining these little numbers. That means either you have resources, abilities, or industries where you have a place. Best to have all of them but sometime a country just doesn't have much in the way of resources so trade industry and abilities for them. That is real money. The rest is numbers on a screen and there are only one group who currently controls all that. China has the abilities and industries covered, even the resources part in most cases except energy but plenty of nuclear (now world's first commercial 4th gen reactor done) and renewables are being built like crazy while oil is still "affordable".

India is good at producing kids and then shouting, world's largest democracy while walking into a ravine. No improvements to wealth (except numbers on a screen). No abilities and precious little industry and none of which are particularly competitive. Bangladesh and South East Asian nations are already outcompeting India in some of its industries. Pharma is weak and exposed to laws from the West. It does nothing special in Pharma and is not even innovative. Even China's Pharma industry is bigger and produces more novel products. Biotech too.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hindotva is an ideology of superiority and we'll see how long that works for India and what the results are.

Its current leaders desperately want progress from unity and hindu pride but nearly half the population is uneducated and undernourished. They use the other half to trash talk the internet and troll around but base precious few of their bullshit on reality and facts.
 
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