China and Argentina re Falklands/Malvinas

Miragedriver said:

China's exploitation of Latin American natural resources raises concern
Economic benefits countered by environmental damage and fears over lopsided nature of trade relations with Beijing

Amazonian

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, a mountain

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, the Cerrado savannah converted to soy fields in Brazil and oil fields under development in Venezuela's Orinoco belt.

These recent reports of environmental degradation in Latin America may be thousands of miles apart in different countries and for different products, but they have a common cause: growing Chinese demand for regional commodities.

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Oh, come on! The Amazonian forest has been suffering from clear-cutting since long before Deng even started his market reforms. Now it's suddenly all China's fault?

What kind of "non-lopsided" trade relations did Latin American countries have before China entered the picture?

solarz said:

Oh, come on! The Amazonian forest has been suffering from clear-cutting since long before Deng even started his market reforms. Now it's suddenly all China's fault?

What kind of "non-lopsided" trade relations did Latin American countries have before China entered the picture?

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I am in agreement with you. Brazil has been clear cutting jungle for decades and all of Latin America was selling resources to the highest bidder. Although to give the writer the benefit of the doubt, the Ecuadorian and Peruvian side have not been as exploited as the Brazilian side has.

Latin America is now selling rights to extract resources (in exchange for infrastructure improvements) as opposed to mining (or harvesting) it themselves and selling to the highest bidder.

Nothing new under the sun

How are relations between Brazil and Argentina./Sweden. I was wondering with Saab winning the bid to supply Brazil with 36 Grippens, some of which are assembled in Brazil, Argentina could piggy back off the deal..

B.I.B. said:

How are relations between Brazil and Argentina./Sweden. I was wondering with Saab winning the bid to supply Brazil with 36 Grippens, some of which are assembled in Brazil, Argentina could piggy back off the deal..

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That would be nice, but the British political pressure will not permit any portion of the aircraft to be built or sourced to Argentina. Please note that I have nothing against the UK, they are protecting their interests. The UK has very successfully block all attempts by Argentina to purchase modern (third and fourth generation) aircraft from several sources, that include; Jordan (Mirage F-1), Spain (Mirage F-1), France (mirage 2000), Israel (both Kfir and A-4).

Even I don’t want Cristina to have modern aircraft. It is like giving a sharp knife to a wild monkey.


Back to bottling my Grenache

Blackstone said:

How will Argentina pay for the arms? Even if China offer loans on generous terms, it's questionable if the money would or could be repaid.

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beef?! I know Argentina has some fine Pampas fed cattles... and I also know more and more Chinese are now getting their palate accustomed to good quality beef. A match made in heaven.

I think any chinese who have tasted some good argentine lomo or Costeleta would suddenly want to sell them more J birds.

Blackstone said:

How will Argentina pay for the arms? Even if China offer loans on generous terms, it's questionable if the money would or could be repaid.

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Argentina is not a poor country, they can pay, but if you have followed what aircraft Argentina has sought most of them are Western, if China and Argentina ever ink a deal, it will mean Argentina has jumped into China and Russia`s bandwagon, because most arm sales in Latin america are politically monitored by the USA; Venezuela and Cuba were for example considered Pro-Russians and politically they have paid the price, Argentina will be no exception.


Latin America is a region that has not really militaristic inclinations, it is a part of the world where still there is a lot of land, resources and the populations have too much homogeneity, war has not ravaged as it has done in Asia or Africa and much less Europe.

So most Latin American nations always want USA approval not because we fear the USA, but because most nation are looking for economic prosperity rather than national military power, and Argentina too here is not exception, they will think twice before buying Chinese

...and yet apparently the Chinese satellite tracking station has gone in and will be made operational.

Whether the current Argentina administration intends it or not, the opposition's point is valid that such a facility can be a dual use facility and could be used to track military programs as well.

This will already be raising eyebrows in other nations.

Things like this will tend to further isolate Argentina from the west for sure, and potentially from other Latin American nations.

At the same time, the current Argentine administration may be gambling that such cooperation could easily be part of a larger deal that helps Argentina receive arms from China...and thus further move into that sphere.

The more that seems a possibility, the more the things you indicated in your post above could come into play.

We shall see...time will tell.

Jeff Head said:

...and yet apparently the Satellite tracking station has gone in and will be made operational.

Whether they intend to or not, the opposition's point is valid that it is a dual use facility and could be used to track military programs as well.

This will already be raising eyebrows in other nations.

Things like this will tend to further isolate Argentina from the west for sure, and potentially from other Latin American nations.

At the same time, the current administration may be gambling that such cooperation could easily be part of a larger deal that helps Argentina receive arms from China...and thus further move into that sphere.

The more that seems a possibility, the more the things you indicated in your post above could come into play.

We shall see...time will tell.

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There are voices in Argentina very upset about it, they say it violates the sovereignty of Argentina, in the video i posted, the reported said in order to enter there you have to ask the Chinese, not any Argentinian official, they said here starts Argentina and here starts China when the were filming the fence around it, the critics say it is a violation to Argentina`s territorial integrity and they know it might have international implications because they say it is directly controlled by the Chinese military, despite it is said it has peaceful uses

b787 said:

There are voices in Argentina very upset about it, they say it violates the sovereignty of Argentina,

...in order to enter there you have to ask the Chinese, not any Argentinian official, they said here starts Argentina and here starts China

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While I understand the sentiments, heck, what would they expect?

If China is allowed by the Argentine government to build a highly sensitive tracking station...even if it is for satellites only...do the people really expect that just anyone can walk into such a facility?

Of course not.

The Chinese will want to maintain OpSec at the facility and they will have guards out there and unless someone has a reason to be there that the people running the place recognize...they are not going to let them in.

The Argentine government will allow this...just like they would for any Argentine or other foreign corporation.

Now...if they refuse to allow official Argentine government officials who ar eon official government business access...that would be different.

But I do not think that is what is happening.

I believe that the facility has been built to local regulations, and that they are going to be allowed to keep the facility secure.

All of this comes with the territory.

If your government lets someone build such a facility...you can bet it is not going to be "open to the public."

This is not something that outsiders are doing on their own...this is something the Argentina government /administration, elected by the people of Argentina, has sanctioned and is allowing. If the people really dislike it, they will simply have to elect different leaders.

b787 said:

Argentina is not a poor country, they can pay, but if you have followed what aircraft Argentina has sought most of them are Western, if China and Argentina ever ink a deal, it will mean Argentina has jumped into China and Russia`s bandwagon, because most arm sales in Latin america are politically monitored by the USA; Venezuela and Cuba were for example considered Pro-Russians and politically they have paid the price, Argentina will be no exception.


Latin America is a region that has not really militaristic inclinations, it is a part of the world where still there is a lot of land, resources and the populations have too much homogeneity, war has not ravaged as it has done in Asia or Africa and much less Europe.

So most Latin American nations always want USA approval not because we fear the USA, but because most nation are looking for economic prosperity rather than national military power, and Argentina too here is not exception, they will think twice before buying Chinese

Click to expand...

The current regime in charge does not care about what the western world thinks (unlike many middle class and working Argentine's do), since their mentality is “they will never be our real friends” and the west proved that during the War. This is complete crazy thinking. How could have the USA, and the rest of Western Europe, turned their backs on Britain with years (centuries) of friendship. There are many in the Argentine government that are either not playing with a full deck or cards or that have consumed the “cool aid” and truly believe that America and Europe are the “Great Satan”

Like all liberal/progressives/Socialist they never think out the logical progression of their actions (maybe they should show them how to play Chess). The logical progression to “getting in bed” with China is that you have now told everyone that you are rouge and not with/or supportive of western interests. This will have the results (as mentioned by Jeff and B787) that Western supported nations (Chile for example)will be shown preferential treatment and provided with extras it economy, military and in the UN, that they may need. Just because they are playing well with the West. Argentina on the other hand will have to pay for all these extras in resources, money, territorial integrity and nation pride.


Back to bottling my Grenache