Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[bsdnf]

Imo it will make a huge impact. J-36 would be accompanied by multiple UAVs, by 2035 there could easily be 150+ supersonic LO strike capable UAVs creating a very sizable strike package. This combined with the ability to seriously threaten Guam via air launched munitions rather than only ballistic missiles throws US westpac strategy into disarray.

Based on the large optical windows we can decern that j-36 is optimised for fighting other LO aircraft, it is expected that IRST will be used to detect and track NGAD during engagements.

In other news, based on recent discussions are the 3 engine set to be the same? Only difference being perhaps inlet geometry.

At least the nozzles are the same.

IRST must be considered, related CAC paper spent a lot of word emphasizing the importance of low infrared observable design

 

[tankphobia]

Cope pile on. How apropos to have ED ads to accompany this article.

The fact that somehow all the western online discourse has the baidi tv show promotion piece as a serious airplane never ceases to amaze me.

 

[gongolongo]

Buddy pod can be inside the IWB

It's either this or H-20 or a dedicated platform for stealth tanker, but China need stealth tankers to extend air combat radius to mid-Pacific so its one or the other.

I think that's more suited for unmanned aircraft honestly. With how advanced the PLA is I think they should not be dedicating 6th gen fighters to this role.

 

[gongolongo]

The side array reminds me of a battleship broadside. People are no joking when they say this is a air cruiser. But no, this is almost like an air dreadnought. Because for planes, missiles are the naval guns, stealth and ECM are the armor. They are going to cross T like the classic naval battles.

The Su-57 has this. It's more for situational awareness but I doubt it would be used as the go to primary sensor given how small they are.

 

[gongolongo]

It's what China wants and needs as well. The regular 4th and 5th gen airforce won't struggle with taking out US Asia air forces.

The problem is all the pesky IADS that hostile countries have, stopping China from using its bomb/missile over capacity to turn any US aggression supporter states into a bigger version of Sodom and Gomorra.

We need the best SEAD aircraft ever designed to reliably pierce those air defense.

Coincidentally J-36 can not just do SEAD, it can also do other counter air attacks. But SEAD is defintely something that will be huge for it and should not be downplayed, it is one of the major missing pieces.

There's a reason China has a 2nd 6th gen to complement this platform.

Just make a PL-15 variant that's SEAD and every 5/6th gen plane can assist with Sead.

 

[iewgnem]

The discussions on the forum have started to go deeper, which is good, but there's an elephant in the room that hasn't been mentioned yet: what would the combat scenario look like between sixth-generation aircraft, or rather, between military systems equipped with sixth-generation fighters?
Let me kick off the discussion by posing a few questions for everyone to consider:

1. How much will the stealth capabilities improve compared to fifth-generation fighters? (Will it be exponential?) Under the conditions of all-aspect, all-band stealth of sixth-generation fighters, how can they be detected? How close does one need to be to detect them?
2. Will manned sixth-generation fighters actually encounter each other in combat?
3. What role will unmanned wingmen fighter play in combat? Could the battlefield turn into a contest of drone numbers?

Let's assume that by 2035, both China and the U.S. will have around fifty manned sixth-generation fighters each (I believe the NGAD will certainly be revived given the recent news, but the high costs and the increasing role of drones might limit the production numbers of manned sixth-generation fighters). If a limited war breaks out between the two over the Taiwan issue in the Pacific, what would the aerial landscape over the Pacific look like?

To model future 6th gen vs 6th gen you kinda have to know what American NGAD will look like first and how many each side can build.
- US putting a 6th gen sticker on B-21 will model very differently than US catching up to CHAD.
- US being able to build same number of CHAD class NGAD as China will model differently than US only having 1/2 or 1/4 the number
- J-36 was designed with implicit ability to burn through existing US 5th gen stealth at long range, US having vs not having equal capability will model differently.
- China has the ability to mass produce CCA, US having same industrial capability vs not will model differently.

In China vs China scenario where detection range are equal, quantities are equal and missile load are equal then it'll probably model similar to existing 4th gen vs 4th gen but with compressed distances. If US uses equal number of B-21 / CCA to go against J-36 / CCA then it'll probably end with B-21 dead.

But in reality both side will deploy all their assets including 4th and 5th gen, so 6th gen vs 6th gen won't actually come up, it'll be a system vs system war where everything including KJ-3000 and KJ-700, PL-21, DF-17, E-3 and E-7, basing, logistics and tankers all comes into play. 6th gen's role in this war can very well be mopping up opposing 5th gen and it becomes a question of which 6th gen can do that better.

 

[iewgnem]

It's what China wants and needs as well. The regular 4th and 5th gen airforce won't struggle with taking out US Asia air forces.

The problem is all the pesky IADS that hostile countries have, stopping China from using its bomb/missile over capacity to turn any US aggression supporter states into a bigger version of Sodom and Gomorra.

We need the best SEAD aircraft ever designed to reliably pierce those air defense.

Coincidentally J-36 can not just do SEAD, it can also do other counter air attacks. But SEAD is defintely something that will be huge for it and should not be downplayed, it is one of the major missing pieces.

There's a reason China has a 2nd 6th gen to complement this platform.

SEAD can probably be done by spamming a few million drones to take out exposed AD, hunt for hidden AD and exhaust AD inventory by targeting other assets.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I wonder if the missing piece is something like rapid dragon but for deploying very low cost suicide drones, but could fly very quickly and has long range and is not too expensive. Something like WZ-8 on steroids.

 

[dingyibvs]

When you say slow, you mean 500-800km/h airspeed. That is not slow in terms of launching an object in a direction that is perpendicular to the direction the plane is traveling in. It can't be done and it is a stupid design, because of the various loads applied to the plane, canisters, & objects launched, in all kinds of directions. You can't just copy VLS from ships and paste it on planes and call it a day. Ships travel slowly enough for VLS to work on them, while planes do not travel slowly and aerodynamics play a pivotal role in their design, which is why designers always opt for launching missiles in parallel or slightly diagonal directions to travel. There are better ways to go about this than the 3d model in question.

Yeah I really just don't really see any point to launching missiles vertically on a plane, I feel like a slanted launcher in-line with the fuselage would work just fine.

 

[Blitzo]

I wonder if the missing piece is something like rapid dragon but for deploying very low cost suicide drones, but could fly very quickly and has long range and is not too expensive. Something like WZ-8 on steroids.

If you want low cost suicide drones which are able to be deployed in sizable numbers via a transport aircraft and with decent range, that's certainly doable with current technology.

But if you want it to be fast as well, while also being not too expensive, like a "WZ-8 on steroids" then those are contradictory demands which current technology cannot meet.