Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

styx

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In my opinion, the concept of a sixth-generation fighter applied to the J-36 positions the new aircraft as a sort of "strategic air superiority plane." It elevates what was once a tactical role to a strategic level. Let's be honest: 10 fully operational aircraft like the J-36 could potentially destroy an air force like Israel's or Japan's current one in just a few days, delivering devastating multi-domain attacks alongside hypersonic weapons. Even an entire U.S. CVBG (Carrier Strike Group) would be in serious trouble against such aircraft. Speed combined with stealth completely changes the game. Moreover, it's pointless to talk about dogfights with planes that cruise at Mach 2 at 20,000 meters—it's simply impossible to reach them.
 
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tphuang

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It's not like the space used to accommodate pilots would be wasted though, they can be used to carry extra EW or fuel. If you just want extra weapons sure, you can make them much smaller and cheaper, but if you want say a refueler that can supercruise with the J-36 then it's gonna be something that looks and probably costs very much like a J-36.
> You can make the aircraft much smaller and cheaper without pilots in there.

Ehhh. I think depending on what you want from said aircraft you won't actually get it much smaller, let alone cheaper. A high performance aerial weapons platform still needs the necessary space (and thus size) for fuel, weapons and sensors. And if you want a high performance unmanned aircraft, it won't be much cheaper than a manned counterpart. Because you still end up with the same manufacturing methods, materials and expensive subsystems.
By definition, you don't need to accommodate human living quarter when you make something Unmanned. The smaller the platform is, the more logical it is to go unmanned. For something like J-36 that's intended to be in the air for a long time with 2 pilots, you also have to consider that 1 pilot may need to do his business once in a while. Crew comfort becomes a real concern. So, I expect J-36 itself to have more space allocated for that purpose.
3 engine design isn't great from maintenance point of view. If they build an unmanned tanker, it would be better to do it from a 2 engine planform. That planform can be configured as subsonic bomber or tanker.

Another consideration against making it too large is just the ability to take off and land from Aircraft Carrier. My calculation is that you want to be able to refuel J-36 from 3000 km away from China. Or at least have that option.

Online pundits: we'll blockade the strait of Malacca and China is doomed!

J-36: LOL, LMAO even.

This range pretty much allows China to perform anti shipping duties across all of SEA.
It allows China to control all of Asia basically. If any country wants to blockade, you just bomb them.

In my opinion, the concept of a sixth-generation fighter applied to the J-36 positions the new aircraft as a sort of "strategic air superiority plane." It elevates what was once a tactical role to a strategic level. Let's be honest: 10 fully operational aircraft like the J-36 could potentially destroy an air force like Israel's or Japan's current one in just a few days, delivering devastating multi-domain attacks alongside hypersonic weapons. Even an entire U.S. CVBG (Carrier Strike Group) would be in serious trouble against such aircraft. Speed combined with stealth completely changes the game. Moreover, it's pointless to talk about dogfights with planes that cruise at Mach 2 at 20,000 meters—it's simply impossible to reach them.
Yes, it is now a strategic platform.

If they can get this into service by 2031/2032, it's going to be a huge balance of power change in Asia, since now you control all of Asia, not just the areas immediate to China.
 

Deino

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Guys … can we come back to a sense of Reality?

To discuss how this type will wipe out whole armies, how it will cooperate with several 076s is simply OFF TOPIC

As much as I like it taht several new members entered this forum, but PLEASE read the rules, we are a bit different to others and endlessly posting off topic fantasies is not appreciated
 
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Wrought

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Guys … can we come back to a sense of Reality?

To discuss how this type will wipe out whole armies, how it will cooperate with several 076sis Off topic

I think you forgot to change text color to red?

Also yes, the exuberance might be natural and expected but it's really out of hand.
 
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antwerpery

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Lockheed stock finished lower Thursday, after Deutsche Bank downgraded the shares, reversing a mid-2024 upgrade, as Chinese progress in developing jet fighters raises doubts about sales of the F-35. Analyst Scott Deuschle cut his rating from Buy to Hold and lowered his target for the stock price to $523 from $611.

Lockheed stock closed down 0.8% at $482.25, while the S&P 500 and Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 0.2% and 0.4%, respectively.
He had upgraded shares to Buy in July, believing earnings growth would accelerate, leading to a higher valuation multiple.
“We’re downgrading Lockheed to Hold (from Buy) as we feel our prior thesis struggles to hold water and we have increased concern on the long-term support for F-35 in the face of China’s combat aircraft modernization efforts,” wrote Deuschle.
“The developments in China are likely to accelerate the need for NGAD, and the ultimate success in fielding NGAD by the early-mid 2030s
could…partially cut into the F-35 procurement program,” Deuschle said.
“We’re struggling to find a compelling upside case on estimates,” wrote Deuschle. That means slower earnings growth. What is more, he said he sees “the reveal of further advancements in combat aircraft capabilities by China as potentially undermining long-term [Department of Defense] demand for the F-35 aircraft.”
This is by Deutsche Bank btw, so I assume that they have some idea of what they're talking about. They seem to think that America will take funding for the F-35 and pump it into the NGAD as a response. Also they think that it's still a even race for Boeing and Lockheed to win the NGAD contract, instead of Lockheed basically automatically winning it due to Boeing's recent string of failures. And yeah, lockheed stock has fallen since the 26th, even though you would expect it to have risen in expectation of a massively increased defense budget as America attempts to counter China.
 
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kentchang

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isn't its top speed just mach 2? (according to wikipedia)

Mach 2 is very serious speed. Most military pilots never reach that speed in their careers just like most civies never reach 140mph driving their SUVs. Sweetman suggests the J-36 is designed to supercruise at Mach 1.8. If you are the owner, you care about the wear'n'tear on your precious engines.
 

Mearex

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Mach 2 is very serious speed. Most military pilots never reach that speed in their careers just like most civies never reach 140mph driving their SUVs. Sweetman suggests the J-36 is designed to supercruise at Mach 1.8. If you are the owner, you care about the wear'n'tear on your precious engines.
but aren't many fighters, even older ones, capable of Mach 2? The f-22 also claims 2.25 fwiw. Or is J-20's claimed Mach 2 speed using older engines?
 

antiterror13

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but aren't many fighters, even older ones, capable of Mach 2? The f-22 also claims 2.25 fwiw. Or is J-20's claimed Mach 2 speed using older engines?

Old retired J-8 could do Mach 2.2 .... with your logic J-8 is more advanced than J-20 ? :p

B-2 is subsonic bomber with maximum Mach 0.95 while B-1 is Mach 1.2 .. so with your logic B1 is more advanced ?

F-22 maximum speed is Mach 1.2 and F-4 is Mach 2.2 .. surely with your logic that F-4 is much more advanced :p
 
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